Comments on: Oops: Unemployment in Israel ‘leaps’ by 20% overnight

By: XYZ

XYZ — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 03:27:45 +0000

Dircectrob makes a good point, Arab students in the US and Europe can do well in the sciences and technology. Then why don’t the Arab countries move ahead in these areas? NOT because of “colonialism” but due to the social structure of those countries. The ties of clan and family. The felt need for someone who reaches a position of authority to hand out jobs he has available to friends and family instead of to the most qualified person.
BTW-this was true in Israel during its corrupt, diseased socialist past. It was called “proteksia”. This is why it took decades for Israeli scientists to win a Nobel Prize….because Israeli institutions were run on a similar basis….hire your friends and relatives, not the best. Fortunately, this attitude has been declining in Israel. Until it disappears in the Arab world (and I don’t if this is happening at all) they won’t advance.
A good example is given in the book by the Egyptian Nobel Prize winning author Naguib Mahfouz in his book which I think is called “Yes, Honored Sir” which is about the attempt of a simple man who tries to rise to the top of a government office, and the obstacles he encounters because he doesn’t come from a “connected” family.

By: Beholder

Beholder — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:59:05 +0000

>Did the Blacks in the US before, let’s say 1960, have a worse education than the average white person because they were black, or because they were massively discriminated against?

During 1960′s there were at least as much Arabs as Jews in the USA. To my knowledge there were no segregation or other limitations on Arabs, not at the time, nor later. Arab countries have much more money than Israel does, but still Arab science is at best few good leaps behind and at best – laughable.
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Why is that?
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There are a mere 12 Million Jews in the entire world yet they have received 192 Nobel Prizes.
The Muslims number 1.4 Billion (with a very big “B”)… or 117 times the number of Jews! Based upon this 117:1 Muslim-to-Jewish ratio, one might expect the Muslims to have 22,464 Nobel Laureates.
They have NINE! and one of them [Arafat] is a murderer.

By: Rodrigo

Rodrigo — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:15:26 +0000

The previous post was for SH…

By: Rodrigo

Rodrigo — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:14:51 +0000

Look, you have already admitted that ‘there are ebbs and flows in every civilization’ by which I assume you mean that at the present moment the Arab World is still ebbing as far as science and technology are concerned. It isn’t a permanent situation as there is nothing inherent in Arab culture that prevents innovation, but given its current incarnation it certainly is not a trend that looks like it is reversing at the moment. Are we done with this silliness?

As for the article we are actually commenting on, it is barely news. Somebody screwed up in previous reporting of data and they are going to get chewed out by the BoI and Fischer. Yes, as the original Globes article says this makes data seem less reliable and may hurt the faith of foreign investors. And yet, a change in the methodology towards OECD standards that changes the underlying rate by less than 1% towards the still relatively low rate of 6.5% is barely news. In a club where Greece is a member like the OECD this kind of open and non-coerced discovery and publication of an error should be awarded a medal.

As for the other article you link to, of course things can work better in Israel. It is too damn expensive and disorganized compared to the US or European states. Heaven forbid Israel decides that everything is perfect and clamps down on people that say otherwise. Hell, then it might look a lot like an average Arab country.

By: Bill Pearlman

Bill Pearlman — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 12:49:01 +0000

When you subtract oil production and some low value added textile production from Islamic GDP it doesn’t exactly impress anybody.

By: XYZ

XYZ — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 12:11:07 +0000

Felix-
You are giving us the old quasi-Marxist-Progressive line that “really, everybody in the world is the same, and that ‘same’ is what I am, and if there are people who don’t reach the achievements I have decided are the desirable ones, then they are victims of economic or political discrimination, colonialism, racism…etc, etc”.
Did it ever occur to you that people have different values than you? That maybe their view of education is different than yours? Is it possible their life goals are not the same as yours?
There was a an article a few years ago in the New York Times about education in Algeria. The gov’t there decided to cut back French language classes and, instead to increase the number of hours devoted to Qur’anic studies. The gov’t decided that this is more important than Western-type subjects. Does that find favor in your eyes or not? Do you think that will increase or decrease the students ability to master modern math, science, computer skills, etc? If not, how is “colonialism” or “racism” responsible for Algeria’s sovereign decision to have this sort of educational policy?

By: sh

sh — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:51:30 +0000

“SH, This is a silly discussion”
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Not so silly, Rodrigo. Name me Jewish advances in science and maths during the same period. Tell me how many Israeli Nobel Prize-winners have not lived in the United States during some period of their lives. As for Arab innovators today, the list is long, but it’s mainly in the arts not the sciences. It doesn’t work the way you describe it, there are ebbs and flows in every civilization and you’re reading a script not having a discussion.
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In addition, the tropes you have chosen to bring here have nothing to do with cooked polls, which is what the article was about. We’re hearing concepts like “accidentally overlooked” and it’s getting quite funny. However happily you dismiss it, far from being negligible, the subject threatens to be huge, for it affects the statistics of other things we’ve been patting ourselves on the backs for. Already the day before Stanley Fisher had apoplexy, this appeared in the Jerusalem Post: http://www.jpost.com/Business/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=264066

By: Felix Reichert

Felix Reichert — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:33:14 +0000

Lack of innovative spiritis nothing intrinsic to the Arab culture(s).
Look at Europe for over 1000 years, look at Japan until only about a 100 years back. Has Europe completely thrown out its cultural roots after enlightenment, has Japan’s culture today nothing to do with Japan’s culture 150 years ago?

I din’t think so.

The reason why people in Arab states often have worse education than in Western countries are entirely political, and economic, and can change practically overnight.

The reason why Palestinians (in Israel & the Occupied Territories) often have worse education is entirely because of Israel’s institutional racism.

Did the Blacks in the US before, let’s say 1960, have a worse education than the average white person because they were black, or because they were massively discriminated against?

Do they today still have worse eductional prowess because they are black (and obviously these blacks must be genetically dumb), or because of the remnants of this institutional racism?

By: mya guarnieri

mya guarnieri — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 04:22:00 +0000

i’d love to see some data about underemployment in israel, as well. i know a number of people who cannot find work commensurate with their education levels or previous work experience.

By: Rodrigo

Rodrigo — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 04:15:01 +0000

Lisa, the Arab World is a reference to the member states of the Arab League.