Appreciate this article? +972 depends on your support -- click here to help us keep going

Analysis News

One by one, Israel's coalition members abandon two-state rhetoric

More and more, members of Israel’s ruling parties are matching their public statements to the reality they are implementing every minute on the ground: Israel’s opposition to the establishment of a viable Palestinian state and a negotiated two-state solution to the conflict. 

A group photo of the 33rd Israeli government, March 19, 2013 (Avi Ohayon, GPO)

Economy Minister and Jewish Home Chairman Naftali Bennett is the latest MK to join a robust list of Israeli government coalition members who have publicly stated that the two-state solution is dead and that the notion of a Palestinian state is a thing of the past. Although it’s no new position for him, Bennett is making it clear that no matter what Prime Minister Netanyahu says or what polls show, the Israel of 2013 is squarely against a two-state solution.

Bennett stated that ”the idea of forming a Palestinian state in Israel has reached a dead end,” speaking at a settler council meeting Monday morning, comparing the “Palestinian problem” to a “piece of shrapnel” lodged in someone’s rear end; that one needs to learn to live with a pain in the ass rather than surgically remove it and risk becoming disabled.

Bennett also asserted there is no occupation, since Israeli Jews cannot be occupiers in their own home (echoing the Netanyahu-commissioned Levy Report from nearly a year ago that concluded there is no occupation) and called on Israel to annex Area C of the West Bank. This is similar to what Likud MK and former Knesset speaker Reuven Rivlin said last year: “Today, almost 20 years since Oslo, one could clearly argue that the idea of separating between the nations has failed … Between the Jordan River and the sea, there can only be one state, Jewish and democratic, with a solid Jewish majority.”

There are plenty of other coalition members who have publicly come out against the two-state solution and the possibility of a viable Palestinian state, as a Knesset committee meeting on the subject exposed last month. It’s not just fundamentalist Hebron settler Orit Struck from Jewish Home, who said two states are ”not part of the government’s guiding principles, and for good reason.”

MK Yoni Chetboun, also from Jewish Home, said at that meeting that, “the government has not even decided that it supports two nations for two peoples.” He is also the MK who publicly accused the Obama administration of boycotting Ariel University in the West Bank when the student body was not invited to his Jerusalem speech in March.

MK Ofer Shelah, from Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid party, said recently that Israel will become an apartheid state if it does not pull out of the West Bank and called the occupation “corrupt.” Yet two of his party members – Pnina Tamano-Shata and Dov Lipman - attended the launch of the Knesset pro-settlement caucus a few days ago, which is committed to “bolstering the legal status of the Jewish people in the entire Land of Israel” and “rectifying the grave mistake of the disengagement [from Gaza] and preventing its recurrence.” Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein also attended the event.

Yair Lapid isn’t any better. His declaration that there will be no compromise on Jerusalem and no settlement freeze is pretty much as good as saying no to a two-state solution.

Likud of course has its fair share of anti-two-staters who openly oppose establishment of a Palestinian state. Likud MK Tzipi Hotovely, at the start of this year said the two-state solution is an “illusion.” Just the other day, Likud MK and Deputy Minister Ofir Akunis said settlements are actually good for peace and followed it up with the declaration that “Palestinians are not ready for statehood.”

Deputy Defense Minister from Likud Danny Danon takes the cake with his statement last week that the government will block any chance of a two-state solution and that any efforts at negotiations are futile. (MK Ahmed Tibi rightly said Danon is the most honest in the coalition as he at least does not hide Israel’s plans.)

Likud MK and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said in Washington a few days ago that the Arab Peace Initiative (for a two-state solution along 1967 borders in exchange for normalized relations with the Arab world) is just “a spin.”

As for Likud chairman, Prime Minister and acting Foreign Minister Netanyahu, he has himself said Israel must reach an agreement with Palestinians to avoid becoming a binational state and that a “demilitarized’ Palestinian state could be established. So Netanyahu is in fact – as far as the political rhetoric goes – the most moderate of the bunch. Scary. Though an official in his office just stated just the other day that in fact the government “has no official position on the Palestinian issue.”

And we mustn’t forget Justice Minister-cum-chief Israeli negotiator Tzipi Livni of Hatnuah, one of the last ministers in the governing coalition still publicly invoking a two-state solution as the only way to keep Israel Jewish. But considering her work environment, she cannot be seen as much more than a fig leaf for this government.

For additional original analysis and breaking news, visit +972 Magazine's Facebook page or follow us on Twitter. Our newsletter features a comprehensive round-up of the week's events. Sign up here.

View article: AAA
Share article
Print article
  • COMMENTS

    1. The Trespasser

      Given that a viable Palestinian is nothing but a fantasy, due to numerous reasons (separate governments of WB and Gaza, widespread view that occupation has begun in 1947 and could be ended only by destruction of Israel, claims that Jerusalem is necessary for such state, just to name few reasons) there is hardly any point in talking about such state.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Bibi stalls; worked pretty well for him last term. As PM and acting FM, he cannot very well alienate the West by asserting Two States dead. He plays good cop to his coalition’s bad cop.

      As Two States dies we have apartheid as the best of all possible worlds, with some expunging of prior Bank residents below the radar. Noam Sheizaf’s position of One State with deprived human dignity appears inevitable.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Palestinian

      Greedy people will never give back stolen land.Thieves in Tel Aviv will never give up their plans unless they are forced to ,and the only language they understand is armed resistance(and money of course).

      Reply to Comment
      • The Trespasser

        Oh, we understand “armed resistance” really well, which is why IDF has become on of world’s most efficient armies, and Palestinian Arabs are deprived of most rights.

        Such a shame that you won’t show up here, by the way – there is a shortage of good targets.

        Reply to Comment
        • Palestinian

          I knew you would reply as soon as you read my comment.We both agree the IDF is one of the most efficient armies in committing crimes and “professional” terrorism.And yes …thieves

          Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            At times I am really sorry that IDF does not behave like Jordanian or Syrian armies.

            Just one week of Assad-style combat would be sufficient to resolve this whole issue.

            Speaking of thieves, there is not even one single nation which is still living in the area where it had came to being, so your claims are rather funny and are a perfect display of your illiteracy, so common to your kin.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestine

            So you’re comparing the most “moral” army in the world with the Syrian army ? Oh boy we are on the same page …

            When you take over (steal) someone else’s property by force then you are a thief.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >So you’re comparing the most “moral” army in the world with the Syrian army?

            No, silly, that is not what I said.

            >When you take over (steal) someone else’s property by force then you are a thief.

            Palestinian Arabs never had entire Palestine in their personal property, therefore no theft was committed.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            “At times I am really sorry that IDF does not behave like Jordanian or Syrian armies.”

            That is an implied comparison.

            How many dunums of Palestinian land were stolen ? How many homes were taken over by Zionist Jewish thieves?

            Thieves …

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            And again – this land never belonged “Palestinians” since aforementioned “Palestinians” only came to existence circa 1960′s in an act of piracy when toponym “Palestine” was usurped by some Arab thieves.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            It was a comparison ….
            and again many dunums of Palestinian land were stolen ? How many homes were taken over by Zionist Jewish thieves?

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >It was a comparison ….

            Well, yeah, my bad.

            But you are right of course – I should not compare the most moral army in the world ™ to armies of savages.

            >and again many dunums of Palestinian land were stolen?

            Since at the time there was no “Palestinians” – about zero.

            You should rephrase your question and ask “how many dunams of Palestinian Arab land were stolen”, which would bring up rather interesting question: By what law exactly Palestinian Arab thieves consider Miri lands to be their personal property.

            How many homes were taken over by Zionist Jewish thieves?

            Far less than Jewish homes which were taken over by Muslim Arab thieves elsewhere. Such a shame that none of these homes were given to Palestinian Arabs. Well, not surprising – savages aren’t too noble, normally.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Well next time just admit your mistake and stop arguing like a 3-year-old child.And you were right,the IDF and the SA belong in the same category.

            “Zero”

            70 years ago Lebanon wasnt recognized as an independent country,does that mean the Lebanese didnt exist and their land belonged to thieves from Poland and Russia ?
            What a twisted brain!

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >And you were right,the IDF and the SA belong in the same category.

            SA killed about 4 times more people in just two years than IDF did in 60 years, yet they belong to the same category. Right.

            >70 years ago Lebanon wasnt recognized as an independent country,does that mean the Lebanese didnt exist

            Yes. “Lebanese” is nationality, not ethnicity.

            >and their land belonged to thieves from Poland and Russia?

            No, silly. Their land belonged to Phoenician, Assyrian, Babylonian,
            Persian, Macedonian, Roman, Byzantine, Arab, Ottoman and French thieves.

            >What a twisted brain!

            Well, I’d say that your brain is too primitive to grasp most modern concepts. Not surprising tho.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            The Palestinian population in 1948 didnt exceed 1.3 million.The population of Syria is almost 23 million!You are comparing between two competing terrorist organizations…

            I never claimed “Lebanese” is ethnicity!

            Although Lebanon wasnt a country in the early 20th century,its soil belonged to its indigenous inhabitants,not Polish and Russian thieves.Why Palestine would be different ?

            Modern concepts ? Like using high-tech weapons to ethnic cleanse people and take over their land ? Oh modern concepts of state-terrorism and hasbara.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            ethnically *

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >The Palestinian population in 1948 didnt exceed 1.3 million.The population of Syria is almost 23 million!

            Dude, can’t you keep to some basic honesty at least?

            We are not comparing number of Palestinian Arab casualties in 1948 to number of Syrian Arab casualties in 2012, are we?

            >You are comparing between two competing terrorist organizations…

            Armies of states now are terrorist organizations. Savages are so … savage… *facepalm*

            >I never claimed “Lebanese” is ethnicity!

            Than what word “Lebanese” means?

            >Although Lebanon wasnt a country in the early 20th century,its soil belonged to its indigenous inhabitants,not Polish and Russian thieves.

            “Soil belonging to indigenous inhabitants” is top grade nonsense. There are no laws of any kind to back this outrageous claim.

            >Why Palestine would be different ?

            No different.

            >Modern concepts? Like using high-tech weapons to ethnic cleanse people and take over their land? Oh modern concepts of state-terrorism and hasbara.

            Modern concepts like “democracy” and “equality”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            You’re comparing the number of Palestinian Arab casualties during armed conflicts to the number of Syrian Arab casualties during the civil war .
            The Palestinian population in Palestine has never exceeded 6 million within the last century.
            Armies that commit terrorism and massacres are terrorist orgs .How do you define the SA ?

            A Lebanese is someone who belongs to the Lebanese people .You cant be that dumb!
            Before Lebanon was declared as an independent country , who owned the land and to whom the full sovereignty was given ? Not to ugly rats from Poland ,right ?

            Democracy ? Like discriminating against 20% of the population inside the Green Line only because they aren’t “chosen” ? ! What a lousy lie !

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >You’re comparing the number of Palestinian Arab casualties during armed conflicts to the number of Syrian Arab casualties during the civil war.

            Yes.

            >The Palestinian population in Palestine has never exceeded 6 million within the last century.

            What is “Palestinian”?
            Palestinian Arab? Palestinian Jewish? Make yourself clear.

            >Armies that commit terrorism and massacres are terrorist orgs.

            1 – Define “terrorism”
            2 – Define “massacre”
            3 – Name one active army which did not carried out even one single act of terror or massacre

            >How do you define the SA?

            Syrian Arab army.

            >A Lebanese is someone who belongs to the Lebanese people. You cant be that dumb!

            Define “Lebanese people”. What is it? Nationality? Ethnicity? Something else?

            >Before Lebanon was declared as an independent country, who owned the land…

            There is a major diffirence between living on the land and owning it.

            >and to whom the full sovereignty was given?

            No “full sovereingty” was given to anyone in Lebanon, which is the reason why civil war broke out mere 33 years after declaration of independence. You see, (semi-) savage tribes just can’t coexist peacefully.

            >Democracy? Like discriminating against 20% of the population inside the Green Line only because they aren’t “chosen” ?! What a lousy lie !

            In the light of the fact that Israeli Arabs have their representatives in Parliament et cetera, I suggest that you find some other “lies”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            How many Palestinians were killed by Zionist terrorists/soldiers during armed conflicts?

            A Palestinian Arab can be Muslim,Christian or Jewish.Jewish trespassers/thieves/terrrosits from Europe werent Palestinian but colonialists.

            Dont you think the SA (the Syrian IDF) is a terrorist organization?

            The Lebanese people are the people who define themselves as such , adopt the Lebanese culture and either have Lebanese citizenship or Lebanese parents/grandparents.

            If the people who’ve inhabited the land for centuries dont own it ,then who does ? Polish and Russian rats ?

            If Lebanon doesnt have full sovereignty then Israel doesnt .Check the definition of sovereignty over land,I understand thieves are incapable of comprehending such terms.

            Few representatives in a racist parliament that passes laws that target the indigenous minority isnt democracy.You discriminate against Palestinians inside the GR in housing, education,employment , budgets …you steal their land and hand it to more “chosen” rats.This isnt democracy but hypocrisy .

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >How many Palestinians were killed by Zionist terrorists/soldiers during armed conflicts?

            No Palestinian Jews or Palestinian Samaritans were killed by Zionists.

            As of Palestinian Arabs – apparently, not as much as would be killed by any non-Palestinian Arab army.

            >A Palestinian Arab can be Muslim,Christian or Jewish.

            That’s a lie. Jews never belonged to “Palestinian Arabs”

            >Jewish trespassers/thieves/terrrosits from Europe werent Palestinian but colonialists.

            Still, you had failed to define “Palestinian”

            >Dont you think the SA (the Syrian IDF) is a terrorist organization?

            Of course it is not. And you have some major problems with understanding written texts.

            >The Lebanese people are the people who define themselves as such, adopt the Lebanese culture and either have Lebanese citizenship or Lebanese parents/grandparents.

            That’s LOAD of bullshit.
            1 – no “Lebanese” culture exists which would be distinctive from “Palestinian” or “Syrian” culture.
            2 – “people who define themselves as such” is purest nonsense. Someone might define oneself as Martian Gebril, would it make one such?
            3 – And what exactly “Lebanese parents/grandparents.” means? 50 years ago there were no “Lebanese”.

            >If the people who’ve inhabited the land for centuries dont own it ,then who does ? Polish and Russian rats ?

            You really shour read about land laws. Milk, miri and such.
            Having conversation with uneducated semi-savage is really cumbersome.

            >If Lebanon doesnt have full sovereignty then Israel doesnt.

            You just are not capable to have even remotely hones conversation. Well, I would not expect anything else…

            We weren’t discussing sovereingnty of Lebanon now, but rather “to whom the full sovereignty was given” in your words. These are not quite the same.

            >Few representatives in a racist parliament that passes laws that target the indigenous minority isnt democracy.

            Few representatives in a parliament who are calling for their electorate to act against the state IS democracy.

            >You discriminate against Palestinians inside the GR in housing, education,employment , budgets …

            There is not even one “Palestinian” inside the Green Line since 1948. You really should update your lingo.

            >you steal their land and hand it to more “chosen” rats.This isnt democracy but hypocrisy .

            Miri land can’t be stolen by the state because it belongs to the state. I understand that for most savage the very concept of “non-Arab state” is unbearable, but to my greatest (not) regret there is nothing I would do.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Again how many Palestinians were killed by Zionists ?

            Jews can be Arabs.

            So as long as terrorists are slaughtering people wearing military uniforms they aren’t terrorists !

            Lebanon’s culture resembles but is different than Palestine’s .I dare you to prove me wrong.

            Should not shour /honest not hones .Maybe you should spend more time working on your spelling than spitting hasbara.

            Land laws don’t mention Polish and Russian thieves.

            To whom full sovereignty over Lebanon was given? Polish and Russian rats ?

            The vast majority of the Palestinian MKs consider themselves Palestinian. They live in a state that forced itself on them and discriminates against them on a daily basis.

            Miri land? Havent you heard of Land Day ?Absentees’ properties law ? What an imbecile thief !

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Regarding the Lebanese identity ,if someone identifies himself as Lebanese,adopts the Lebanese culture and has Lebanese parents,grandparents or citizenship ,how do you identify him? German ? Somali ?

            Give me one example that contradicts my definition.Yalla khabibi

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            There is no distinguishable “Lebanese” culture, as there is no distinguishable “Palestinian” culture.

            If some tribes are living in the same area, it does not make them a single nation.

            Reply to Comment
      • Arthurius

        If somebody stole your land, why didn’t you go to police and filled a complaint?
        You need to do this as fast as possible, otherwise after 49 years this land legally will not be yours.

        Reply to Comment
        • Palestine

          The police is supposed to protect people ,but in our case our land was given to those thieves (donated) on a silver plate.

          Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            Your land? Who the hell you think you are to claim sole ownership on this land?

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            I’m neither a Polish nor a Russian Zionist trespasser/thief.We live in a world where the thief has the audacity to question the landlord’s right to his property….

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            Landlord?
            mwahahahaha.

            Stateless savages can’t be considered “landlords”.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Since when savages go to schools and universities ?

            And to be honest I would rather be a savage in my homeland than a stateless unwelcome creature who dedicates his entire life to stealing , terrorizing and deceiving others .You’ll never be able to get this complex …thieves

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            get over *

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Since when savages go to schools and universities ?

            Obviously, visiting schools and universities is not enought for a savage to become civilized, as recent poll among Jordanians had proven.

            >And to be honest I would rather be a savage in my homeland …

            Yes. You would rather be a savage. I know. Civilization is too much of a burden.

            >than a stateless unwelcome creature who dedicates his entire life to stealing , terrorizing and deceiving others .

            That is one of best descriptions of Arabs in conquered countries.

            >You’ll never be able to get this complex …thieves

            What complex? Palestinian Arabs had repeatedly (from 1919 to 1947) refused to peacefully coexist on equal basis and had to be cleansed.

            Are you saying that Jews were supposed to act as their less civilized counterparts and should had conducted a small genocide?

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Obviously, visiting schools and universities is not enought for a savage to become civilized.

            I totally agree , the Israeli society is the best example.

            >than a stateless unwelcome creature who dedicates his entire life to stealing , terrorizing and deceiving others .

            Remind me who was literally kicked out of almost every EU country ? And to be honest there is no smoke without fire, ya trespasser.

            I doubt the word “coexistence” exists in your dictionaries.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >I totally agree , the Israeli society is the best example.

            Hmmm… Let’s see…
            Israel: 6 000 000 Jews, 6 Nobel prizes.
            Arab states: 430 000 000 Arabs, 1 Nobel prize.

            Simple calculations would show that Arabs are about 430 times more “savage”.

            >Remind me who was literally kicked out of almost every EU country ?

            Dunno really. Have a list?

            >And to be honest there is no smoke without fire, ya trespasser.

            Yep. Which is why Palestinian Arabs are still kept as underdogs in host states.

            >I doubt the word “coexistence” exists in your dictionaries.

            I think that it would be appropriate to compare quality of life of Israeli Arabs with Egyptian Copts or Iraqi Kurds.

            http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2011/07/religion/islamic-extremists-set-up-sharia-law-controlled-zones-in-british-cities

            Coexistance. Right.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            “Obviously, visiting schools and universities is not enought for a savage to become civilized.”

            Wasnt that your opinion ? And speaking of Nobel Prize , did you know there were Nazi Nobel laureates? aha following in their footsteps…

            Oh boy ,you do know who was kicked out of almost every EU country!I almost believed you.

            How many Palestinians became ministers or prime ministers in your “Island of democracy” ?

            Are you suggesting the Muslims in Egypt should ethnically cleanse 80%+ of the Christian Egyptians and keep the rest under military rule ? What a dirty mind you have !

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >“Obviously, visiting schools and universities is not enough for a savage to become civilized.”

            >Wasnt that your opinion?

            Yes. Apparently, not everyone who visits a school becomes civilized. Your point being?

            >And speaking of Nobel Prize , did you know there were Nazi Nobel laureates? aha following in their footsteps…

            Dude, you don’t know shit.

            “In 1936, the Nobel Foundation offended Adolf Hitler when it awarded the 1935 Nobel Peace Prize to Carl von Ossietzky, a German writer who publicly opposed Hitler and Nazism.[175] (At that time, the prize was awarded the following year.) Hitler reacted by issuing a decree on 31 January 1937 that forbade German nationals to accept any Nobel Prize.”

            >Oh boy ,you do know who was kicked out of almost every EU country!I almost believed you.

            Still you haven’t produced any viable information. Is it because you don’t know shit or due to some other reason?

            >How many Palestinians became ministers or prime ministers in your “Island of democracy” ?

            Oh, quite a lot. David Ben Gurion, for example, or Moshe Sharet.

            >Are you suggesting the Muslims in Egypt should ethnically cleanse 80%+ of the Christian Egyptians and keep the rest under military rule? What a dirty mind you have !

            That is not quite what I had said, my dishonest savage friend.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            “Dude” werent there Nazi Nobel laureates ? Yes or no ?

            Who was kicked out of almost every single country in Europe ? I thought you knew your history that Israelis keep whining about over and over ….

            Ben Gurion was a Polish-Israeli dwarf .Did he consider himself a Palestinian ?

            You compared the Christian Egyptians with Palestinians inside the Green Line and I asked if you were suggesting that they should be treated barbarically and ethnically cleansed as filthy Zionists did to the Palestinians ….it was your comparison.

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >“Dude” werent there Nazi Nobel laureates ? Yes or no ?

            There were no members on National Socialist party of Germany who had recieved Nobel prize while being members of said party.

            However, it is totally irrelevant to the fact that nearly half billion of Arabs were able to produce only 1 (one) Noble laureate.

            >Who was kicked out of almost every single country in Europe ? I thought you knew your history that Israelis keep whining about over and over ….

            For a fourth (fifth?) time you are not able to produce any facts/list. Again – produce a list of people/ethnicities/groups who were kicked out of almost every single European country.

            >Ben Gurion was a Polish-Israeli dwarf. Did he consider himself a Palestinian?

            It is rather irrelevant what he “considered” himself. From 1909 up to 1948 David Ben Gurion was a Palestinian Jew.

            >You compared the Christian Egyptians with Palestinians inside the Green Line and I asked if you were suggesting that they should be treated barbarically and ethnically cleansed as filthy Zionists did to the Palestinians ….it was your comparison.

            That’s not what I had said, my dishonest friend.

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Wasn’t Johannes Stark a Nazi ? My point is you can be a savage Nobel laureate.

            Who was kicked out of almost every single country in the Europe? I’m the one who asked the question.You cant handle it ,can you ?

            It is relevant and BG never considered himself Palestinian.So again how many Palestinians became PM in your country?

            You compared the Palestinians inside the GL to the Copts and Kurds.The Kurds have self-rule in Iraq ,do the Palestinians have it ?

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Wasn’t Johannes Stark a Nazi?

            Stark recieved Nobel prize in 1919, quite a while before becoming member of National Socialist party.

            >My point is you can be a savage Nobel laureate.

            No, not really, leave alone Nobel peace prize, of course.
            You see, the horror of the holocaust is that it was conducted by the most civilized people on the planet.

            >Who was kicked out of almost every single country in the Europe? I’m the one who asked the question.You cant handle it ,can you?

            For the umpteenth time – I do not know. Enlighten me.

            >It is relevant and BG never considered himself Palestinian.

            Can I have a clear definition of what is “Palestinian”?

            >So again how many Palestinians became PM in your country?

            I’ll tell you as soon as you provide me with the clear definition of what “Palestinian” is.

            >You compared the Palestinians inside the GL to the Copts and Kurds.

            “Palestinian” is not ethnicity, unlike Copts or Kurds, so I could not compare these groups.

            >The Kurds have self-rule in Iraq ,do the Palestinians have it ?

            Again – what is “Palestinians”?

            Reply to Comment
          • Palestinian

            Again wasnt Johannes Stark a Nazi? Yes or no

            “You see, the horror of the holocaust is that it was conducted by the most civilized people on the planet.”
            Exactly,so Noble laureates can be barbaric people ,Nazis and Israelis alike.

            Do I need to spoon feed you ! Were Jews kicked out of many European countries ?

            My question was did BG consider himself Palestinian? Its either yes or no regardless of its meaning.

            Define Copts .

            Reply to Comment
          • The Trespasser

            >Again wasnt Johannes Stark a Nazi? Yes or no

            I already had answered that question.

            >Exactly,so Noble laureates can be barbaric people ,Nazis and Israelis alike.

            *facepalm*
            It is so difficult to have a conversation with primitive people – even most basic concepts have to be explained.

            You see, there is a major difference between “savage” or “barbarian” and “cruel”

            >Do I need to spoon feed you ! Were Jews kicked out of many European countries ?

            “Most EU countries” or “many European countries”?

            Make up your mind, ya dishonest Arab.

            >My question was did BG consider himself Palestinian? Its either yes or no regardless of its meaning.

            BG certainly considered himself Palestinian Jew from 1909 up to 1948.

            >Define Copts .

            From wikipedia:
            The term Copt designates the native population of Egypt, as opposed to the various invaders or settlers (Greeks, Romans, Jews, Arabs, etc.) who came to Egypt from other countries.

            Reply to Comment
    4. shmuel

      Palestinian, Trespasser is considered by most of the people on this blog either as an extremist or/and as an idiot. But it is undeniable that also armed resistance made a huge damage to the Palestinian cause. Only non-violent resistance can have some light effects when you deal with human beings like Trespasser.

      Reply to Comment
      • The Trespasser

        Given that “non-violent” is absolutely alien to Arabs, only idiots might hope for Palestinian Arab resistance to become non-violent.

        Reply to Comment
      • Palestine

        Creatures like Trespasser run Israel and the majority of Israelis arent that different.Non-violent resistance has failed so far because as long as Israelis have nothing to lose ,they wont stop doing what they have been doing for decades.

        Reply to Comment
        • The Trespasser

          >.Non-violent resistance has failed so far…

          That’s a nice, phat lie.

          There was no “non-violent” resistance.

          Reply to Comment
    5. Dave

      Obama comes, makes a speech which boiled down to; ” 2-states or its all over and as much as we love you, we won’t be able to save you” Kerry makes a speech to some American Jewish grandees imploring them to initiate an “intervention”. Bill Clinton comes to Israel and begs you to begin peace talks. You see a pattern here? These are road signs on the freeway and there warning you about the road conditions ahead. Support for Israel amongst average Americans is beginning to wane. While things might seem ok at the moment, things don’t look so great 5 years from now. With an American electorate now at about 25% African American, at about 30% Hispanic (and growing), add to that a sizable number of votes from various other sectors and your looking at a paradigm shift in term of the way Americans will view this conflict. America is worn out and it’s people are tired and painfully aware of what is wrong with the nation and have come to a more or less general conclusion that business as usual is no longer possible or desired. The minority demographics are completely alienated by Israel and will vote accordingly and Obama, Kerry, et al. are acutely aware of this, hence the road signs.

      Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn9

        Uhm. Perhaps you missed it, but a black president supported by the vast majority of black and Hispanics won the last two elections. There has been no great change in US policy towards Israel. Also, your demographics are wrong. The American electorate was 13% black and 10% Hispanic during the 2012 election. You have no idea what you are talking about…

        Reply to Comment
        • True the current black president has not shifted his position on Israel…but the American public is definitely changing and future presidents will change with it. How scary for Israel that it must depend on the favor of another country’s electorate for its survival.

          Reply to Comment
    6. Ed

      Good comment Dave, yup it may not seem like it in the short term, but in the long term I think the writing is on the wall for Israel. Once they have really killed two states and are left with apartheid in one state then no amount of hasbara will save them from being totally isolated.

      Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn9

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the long-term everything will work out the way your ideological wind is blowing and all that. In the meantime I need to go to sleep because the writing on the wall is that I need to go to work tomorrow. TGIT…

        Reply to Comment
    7. Dave

      Thanks Ed, and I’m afraid you’re right. And nothing fills me with greater pain & sadness. As a matter of fact, I’m in Israel at the moment, visiting family. Have not been here in 3 years. In that period of time, the advances in engineering, high tech, med science that I have witnessed from even 3 years before, have been in a word, spectacular. If this country can get its act together socially and politically, it’ll save the world. But first they will have to save themselves. It’s my sincerest wish that they do so.

      Reply to Comment
      • Kolumn9

        Dave, listen, you seem like a nice guy. Don’t worry too much about saving us. For all the fear mongering that is going around we are probably stronger right now as a country than we have ever been while our enemies are collapsing around us.

        Reply to Comment
        • Dave

          It’s not my job to save anybody. If Israelis can’t see the forest through the trees, that’s their problem and the worlds loss. As far as “being stronger than you’ve ever been”. Not according to Avi Dichter, Ami Ayalon, Yuval Diskin, Carmi Gillon, Yaakov Peri & Avraham Shalom. Now if you believe that you’re ability to critically analyze the geo-strategic issues that are at stake better than 6 former heads of Israel’s security services, than I better start tokin’ whatever it is you’re smokin’

          Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn9

            On whether Israel is stronger than it has ever been there will be very little argument. There would however likely be an argument over future policy and I would easily find 6 other former heads of Israel’s security services that would back me up. It is just that no one is going to make a movie about it so most naive people abroad will never hear from them.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave

            What is this bullshit; “I could easily find six guys who could counter that argument, if only someone would make a movie about them”? That’s your response to the dire warnings of six well respected men of stature? I don’t know anything about you, but I know one thing. Dichter, Ayalon, Diskin, Gillon, Peri & Shalom aren’t imaginary in their own right and they aren’t compulsive knee-jerk blog commenters. I don’t whether to laugh or cry.

            Reply to Comment
          • Kolumn9

            The response is that there are disagreements in the Israeli security community about the correct course of action going forward with both sides using former security men to push in their preferred direction. The movie you saw presents the one side the director of the movie wished to show due to his ideological positions.

            Reply to Comment
          • Dave

            Whatever, produce 6 voices of equal stature and let them state their cases, at length. Then we’ll talk. Until then, you’re pissing in the wind.

            Reply to Comment
          • Eliza

            I agree with you comments Dave re the importance of the change in American rhetoric and the inevitability of the collapse of popular American support for Israel. But why would the demise of the state of Israel be a loss to the world? (Not the people but the political entity known as Israel). Do you really think that Israeli scientific achievements could save the world? Are you really trying to say without Israeli scientists, the world as we know it is doomed? I’d say the absence of basic justice and common human decency is a real threat to our continued existence that cannot be compensated for by any scientific achievement. Comments like you have made seem to me to be a variation on Israel being a light unto the nations – I rather think humanity will get by without the political entity known as Israel.

            Reply to Comment
    8. Click here to load previous comments

    LEAVE A COMMENT

    Name (Required)
    Mail (Required)
    Website
    Free text

© 2010 - 2014 +972 Magazine
Follow Us
Credits

+972 is an independent, blog-based web magazine. It was launched in August 2010, resulting from a merger of a number of popular English-language blogs dealing with life and politics in Israel and Palestine.

Website empowered by RSVP

Illustrations: Eran Mendel