Comments on: On violence, soccer and occupation – how is Israel different? http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Tue, 18 Jun 2013 03:08:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58149 Kibbutznik Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:13:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58149 why dont you explain to Larry your disdain for those of us from the Hashomer Hatzair movement sh ? for those of us that vote Meretz and Hadash ? for those of us that dont believe in your God bullshit tell him about your revulsion with Shulamit Aloni and your roots with Gush Emunim your forum might have gone sh but its all been recorded " You can’t dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish " no kiddin ;) why dont you explain to Larry your disdain for those of us from the Hashomer Hatzair movement sh ?
for those of us that vote Meretz and Hadash ?
for those of us that dont believe in your God bullshit
tell him about your revulsion with Shulamit Aloni and your roots with Gush Emunim
your forum might have gone sh but its all been recorded
” You can’t dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish ”
no kiddin ;)

]]> By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58135 Kibbutznik Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:49:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58135 " You can’t dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish. " . why not sh ? you in our expieriance have made an art of doing so . ” You can’t dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish. ”
.
why not sh ?
you in our expieriance have made an art of doing so .

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58119 sh Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:44:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58119 Thinking more deeply about it, you're comparing unlike with like, Larry. Israel is different; uniquely incorrigible isn't such a bad way to describe it at this moment in time. The evil can happen in the corners where no-one with power is there to witness it because of the ingenious structure of the thing. The Israel you're talking about is West Jerusalem, the coastal plain towns, the places predominantly inhabited by Jews within the Green Line. The fact that you're a lefty yourself helps you to exclude the places the right considers part of Israel too, in other words those in which uniquely evil things do happen and certain kinds of people have no protection at all from them, not even the right to protection. . The right is in government, those walls, checkpoints, civilians with military equipment and the right to use it as they see fit, undercover agents, night raids are in Israel as far as they are concerned, but Jewish Israelis are not incommoded by them. The left shoots itself in the foot when it calls what happens only in certain places colonialism. Colonies were always far from the mother country. In our case the mother-country becomes the colony. You can't dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish. Thinking more deeply about it, you’re comparing unlike with like, Larry. Israel is different; uniquely incorrigible isn’t such a bad way to describe it at this moment in time. The evil can happen in the corners where no-one with power is there to witness it because of the ingenious structure of the thing. The Israel you’re talking about is West Jerusalem, the coastal plain towns, the places predominantly inhabited by Jews within the Green Line. The fact that you’re a lefty yourself helps you to exclude the places the right considers part of Israel too, in other words those in which uniquely evil things do happen and certain kinds of people have no protection at all from them, not even the right to protection.
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The right is in government, those walls, checkpoints, civilians with military equipment and the right to use it as they see fit, undercover agents, night raids are in Israel as far as they are concerned, but Jewish Israelis are not incommoded by them. The left shoots itself in the foot when it calls what happens only in certain places colonialism. Colonies were always far from the mother country. In our case the mother-country becomes the colony. You can’t dance at two weddings (at the same time), as they say in Yiddish.

]]> By: Dhalgren http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58054 Dhalgren Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:19:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58054 Any leftists that would write a country, any country, off as uniquely evil and/or incorrigible should take a vow of silence and, per the advice of Voltaire, tend to their own gardens. I think we can leave it in the "capable" hands of the right to label countries evil. Any leftists that would write a country, any country, off as uniquely evil and/or incorrigible should take a vow of silence and, per the advice of Voltaire, tend to their own gardens. I think we can leave it in the “capable” hands of the right to label countries evil.

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58053 sh Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:05:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58053 Agree with Piotr about the beach incident. Someone would have called the police in Europe too. The odd thing about it is that no-one called the police and that most seem to think the permissibility of sex in broad daylight on a public beach depends on whether the woman in question is crazy or not. . As far as the rest is concerned, you're probably right Larry. Our city streets are safer than those of Europe or the USA (but our roads? Hmmm). However, being as brutal and boorish as everyone else, or even slightly less so than some, isn't good enough for us. Unlike those to whom we are being compared, we are a light unto the nations, our army is the most moral in the world (and the world, wink, nudge, is one big freier). Agree with Piotr about the beach incident. Someone would have called the police in Europe too. The odd thing about it is that no-one called the police and that most seem to think the permissibility of sex in broad daylight on a public beach depends on whether the woman in question is crazy or not.
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As far as the rest is concerned, you’re probably right Larry. Our city streets are safer than those of Europe or the USA (but our roads? Hmmm). However, being as brutal and boorish as everyone else, or even slightly less so than some, isn’t good enough for us. Unlike those to whom we are being compared, we are a light unto the nations, our army is the most moral in the world (and the world, wink, nudge, is one big freier).

]]> By: Larry Derfner http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-58045 Larry Derfner Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:13:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-58045 What I'm saying is that leftists who write Israel off as uniquely evil or inocrrigible are utterly wrong and unjust; I can't think of a Western democracy that hasn't done much worse things than Israel's doing now, and no one read them out of the civilized world. What I’m saying is that leftists who write Israel off as uniquely evil or inocrrigible are utterly wrong and unjust; I can’t think of a Western democracy that hasn’t done much worse things than Israel’s doing now, and no one read them out of the civilized world.

]]> By: Dhalgren http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-57999 Dhalgren Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:47:45 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-57999 Well, I think many are misreading the nature of the analysis here. I may be mistaken myself, but I read this article as saying that the differences between Israel and more violent regimes (current or historical) should give us cause for hope and reason to believe that justice for all can be secured without the accompanying bloodshed that tends to go along with the overthrow of more violent regimes. Also, nowhere do I read that the occupation is less important in terms of global politics than other, more violent conflicts. For instance, the Syrian conflict is bloodier by far. Yet, a peaceful resolution in Syria would not have the far-reaching effect that an end to the Israeli occupation would. Well, I think many are misreading the nature of the analysis here. I may be mistaken myself, but I read this article as saying that the differences between Israel and more violent regimes (current or historical) should give us cause for hope and reason to believe that justice for all can be secured without the accompanying bloodshed that tends to go along with the overthrow of more violent regimes. Also, nowhere do I read that the occupation is less important in terms of global politics than other, more violent conflicts. For instance, the Syrian conflict is bloodier by far. Yet, a peaceful resolution in Syria would not have the far-reaching effect that an end to the Israeli occupation would.

]]> By: Elisabeth http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-57992 Elisabeth Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:28:19 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-57992 You insist on including the past in your comparison, which seems a bit artificial to me. It is as if you are saying that the situation in Tibet, Birma or Darfur is no worse than in Germany, because look at what the Nazi's were like in their time. You insist on including the past in your comparison, which seems a bit artificial to me. It is as if you are saying that the situation in Tibet, Birma or Darfur is no worse than in Germany, because look at what the Nazi’s were like in their time.

]]> By: VP http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-57975 VP Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:23:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-57975 Ah. The ol' "our racist violence isn't as bad as their racist violence" approach. I see today we're taking the nihilistic approach to justification. Ah. The ol’ “our racist violence isn’t as bad as their racist violence” approach.

I see today we’re taking the nihilistic approach to justification.

]]> By: Piotr Berman http://972mag.com/on-violence-soccer-and-occupation-how-is-israel-different/42993/comment-page-1/#comment-57972 Piotr Berman Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:01:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=42993#comment-57972 The beach event seems simply bizarre. I understand that the problem was that participant and bystanders would have to tell if the woman was in the condition to grant "real consent" for sexual contact, somewhat subtle decision. In more prudish USA any "lewd and boisterous behavior" on any public beach is prohibited, but apparently some beaches in Israel have a different status. (In the conservative interior of USA where I live you can't even bring a can of beer to a beach, but I guess that public sex would not be tolerated even in Florida during Spring Break.) The beach event seems simply bizarre. I understand that the problem was that participant and bystanders would have to tell if the woman was in the condition to grant “real consent” for sexual contact, somewhat subtle decision. In more prudish USA any “lewd and boisterous behavior” on any public beach is prohibited, but apparently some beaches in Israel have a different status. (In the conservative interior of USA where I live you can’t even bring a can of beer to a beach, but I guess that public sex would not be tolerated even in Florida during Spring Break.)

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