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	<title>Comments on: On the Nakba, Jewish identity and memory</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Gil Franco</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-73776</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-73776</guid>
		<description>I agree that 1948 was a tragedy for Palestinian Arabs but your treatment of the subject is so characteristic of the Israeli left and part of the reason it never seems to convince a majority of Israelis. You are only capable of empathy for one side.  

It was tragic for Palestinian Jews too, who lost a full one percent of their population in the attack by the Arab League. Many of those who died and of those who survived on the Jewish side had already suffered grievous losses in the previous decade. 

Why do you have to treat the experience of Jews who left the Arab world in the aftermath of 1948 with same denial, derision and deflection that you complain about with regard to the Nakba. Sorry if it isn&#039;t convenient for your political views but it sucked to get thrown out of Egypt and Iraq and have your property taken away from you, to live under the threat of arrest and arbitrary violence.  There may be books on the subject but it doesn&#039;t seem like you have read any of them.  Some of the people that experienced this persecution are in Canada, you can ask them what it was like. The distinctions you make are frivolous and are designed to subordinate the suffering of Jews to your political views.  So the Jews left the Arab countries in waves, the Arabs left Jerusalem, Haifa, and Jaffa on different dates too.  And why does that make a difference to the personal suffering of the people involved?  

Really, attempting to excuse the persecution of Jews because they were allegedly &quot;aligned with colonialism&quot; is merely apologizing for racism.  The Jews of Aleppo and Tripoli didn&#039;t disperse the Palestinians either.

You need to hold both sides of the conflict to higher standards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that 1948 was a tragedy for Palestinian Arabs but your treatment of the subject is so characteristic of the Israeli left and part of the reason it never seems to convince a majority of Israelis. You are only capable of empathy for one side.  </p>
<p>It was tragic for Palestinian Jews too, who lost a full one percent of their population in the attack by the Arab League. Many of those who died and of those who survived on the Jewish side had already suffered grievous losses in the previous decade. </p>
<p>Why do you have to treat the experience of Jews who left the Arab world in the aftermath of 1948 with same denial, derision and deflection that you complain about with regard to the Nakba. Sorry if it isn&#8217;t convenient for your political views but it sucked to get thrown out of Egypt and Iraq and have your property taken away from you, to live under the threat of arrest and arbitrary violence.  There may be books on the subject but it doesn&#8217;t seem like you have read any of them.  Some of the people that experienced this persecution are in Canada, you can ask them what it was like. The distinctions you make are frivolous and are designed to subordinate the suffering of Jews to your political views.  So the Jews left the Arab countries in waves, the Arabs left Jerusalem, Haifa, and Jaffa on different dates too.  And why does that make a difference to the personal suffering of the people involved?  </p>
<p>Really, attempting to excuse the persecution of Jews because they were allegedly &#8220;aligned with colonialism&#8221; is merely apologizing for racism.  The Jews of Aleppo and Tripoli didn&#8217;t disperse the Palestinians either.</p>
<p>You need to hold both sides of the conflict to higher standards</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Goldman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-62027</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 19:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-62027</guid>
		<description>Tomer: I am not hosting an argumentative, historically inaccurate series of comments on this thread. Your blanket statement &#039;Sephardic Jews&#039; is inaccurate. It is untrue that all the Jews from Arab countries were violently dispossessed. It is also untrue that all the Jews from Arab countries were Sepharadim. There was certainly no genocide (look up the term in the dictionary). No-one uses the term &#039;nakba&#039; to describe the dispersal of the Jews from Arab countries. 
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;
This is not to deny that many Jews from Arab countries did experience tragedies after 1948. In Iraq there was the farhoud. Nearly all the Egyptian Jews were either expelled or chose to leave because their money and businesses were confiscated. 
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;

Leaving all your inaccuracies aside, the point of my post is this: ALL people deserve the right to tell the stories of their tragedies, and to have those tragedies acknowledged. This post is about the Jews&#039; inability and unwillingness to grant that right to the Palestinians - to acknowledge their tragedy. In fact, I specifically mention in my article - did you read it? - that the dispersion of the Jews from Arab lands is used as an excuse to avoid acknowledging the Palestinian tragedy of 1947-8. Can you say &#039;yes, the Palestinians experienced a great tragedy in 1948&#039; WITHOUT needing to add &#039;yes, but&#039;? Because there is a very long list of tragedies all over the world, all the time.
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;

So please do not leave another comment about the subject here. It&#039;s closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomer: I am not hosting an argumentative, historically inaccurate series of comments on this thread. Your blanket statement &#8216;Sephardic Jews&#8217; is inaccurate. It is untrue that all the Jews from Arab countries were violently dispossessed. It is also untrue that all the Jews from Arab countries were Sepharadim. There was certainly no genocide (look up the term in the dictionary). No-one uses the term &#8216;nakba&#8217; to describe the dispersal of the Jews from Arab countries.<br />
<br />
This is not to deny that many Jews from Arab countries did experience tragedies after 1948. In Iraq there was the farhoud. Nearly all the Egyptian Jews were either expelled or chose to leave because their money and businesses were confiscated.<br />
</p>
<p>Leaving all your inaccuracies aside, the point of my post is this: ALL people deserve the right to tell the stories of their tragedies, and to have those tragedies acknowledged. This post is about the Jews&#8217; inability and unwillingness to grant that right to the Palestinians &#8211; to acknowledge their tragedy. In fact, I specifically mention in my article &#8211; did you read it? &#8211; that the dispersion of the Jews from Arab lands is used as an excuse to avoid acknowledging the Palestinian tragedy of 1947-8. Can you say &#8216;yes, the Palestinians experienced a great tragedy in 1948&#8242; WITHOUT needing to add &#8216;yes, but&#8217;? Because there is a very long list of tragedies all over the world, all the time.<br />
</p>
<p>So please do not leave another comment about the subject here. It&#8217;s closed.</p>
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		<title>By: TOMER</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-62017</link>
		<dc:creator>TOMER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 19:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-62017</guid>
		<description>I personally am willing to IDENTIFY and ACKNOWLEDGE the Arab Nakba, if Arabs are mutaully willing to IDENTIFY and ACKNOWlEDGE the Jewish Nakba.

One cannot say that kicking out 0.8 Million of these people is a Nakba but kicking out 0.8 Million of the othe people is NOT a Nakba</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally am willing to IDENTIFY and ACKNOWLEDGE the Arab Nakba, if Arabs are mutaully willing to IDENTIFY and ACKNOWlEDGE the Jewish Nakba.</p>
<p>One cannot say that kicking out 0.8 Million of these people is a Nakba but kicking out 0.8 Million of the othe people is NOT a Nakba</p>
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		<title>By: Tomer</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-62016</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 19:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-62016</guid>
		<description>Dear Lisa:
The Sefardi Jews were kicked out at gunpoint of their homes by their Arab neighbors.  Their houses, lands, bank accounts and everything was systemically confiscated.  They were thrown out on to the streets in many cases with only their clothes on their backs. In many cases, ethnic cleansing was accompanied by genocide.  

Now, if that is not a Nakba, I do not know what is.

So please STOP EXCUSING the Jewish Nakba</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Lisa:<br />
The Sefardi Jews were kicked out at gunpoint of their homes by their Arab neighbors.  Their houses, lands, bank accounts and everything was systemically confiscated.  They were thrown out on to the streets in many cases with only their clothes on their backs. In many cases, ethnic cleansing was accompanied by genocide.  </p>
<p>Now, if that is not a Nakba, I do not know what is.</p>
<p>So please STOP EXCUSING the Jewish Nakba</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61996</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 16:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61996</guid>
		<description>Compassion is one thing, replacing reason with sentimentalism something else.
For Arabs (yes, a generalization), the Nakba doesn&#039;t only mean the catastrophe, it also means the rejection of the Jewish state.
So for an Israeli Jew, the reasoning would be simple: the war was just, wars have casualties that include people who didn&#039;t choose to fight, and the war is still ongoing insofar as the existence of the Jewish state is still fragile. How compassionate can one be towards a perceived mortal enemy? 
This perception is the issue, not its logical implication.
.
I read the shocking statements and think: this is by far the costliest world support per refugee, ever. How did it come to still be in the situation it is in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compassion is one thing, replacing reason with sentimentalism something else.<br />
For Arabs (yes, a generalization), the Nakba doesn&#8217;t only mean the catastrophe, it also means the rejection of the Jewish state.<br />
So for an Israeli Jew, the reasoning would be simple: the war was just, wars have casualties that include people who didn&#8217;t choose to fight, and the war is still ongoing insofar as the existence of the Jewish state is still fragile. How compassionate can one be towards a perceived mortal enemy?<br />
This perception is the issue, not its logical implication.<br />
.<br />
I read the shocking statements and think: this is by far the costliest world support per refugee, ever. How did it come to still be in the situation it is in?</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Goldman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61971</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 13:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61971</guid>
		<description>The dispersal of the Jews from Arab countries is remembered. There are many books on the subject.
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;

The Jews from Arab countries were not, for the most part, refugees. Their dispersal is not called a nakba. They moved to Israel, France, Canada, the United States and other countries and they became citizens of those countries. 
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;


They did not all leave their home countries in 1948. They left in waves, mostly from the mid-1950s on, due to the policies of their governments - eg, Nasser nationalized private businesses and expelled all &#039;foreigners&#039; - Greeks, Italians, etc. Moroccan, Algerian and Tunisian Jews were never expelled. They left for a variety of reasons, largely having to do with their alignment with the French during the colonial era. Qadhafi expelled the Jews in the 1960s. There was a functioning, organized Jewish community in Syria until the 1980s. The Lebanese Jewish community actually grew larger after 1948, with its number declining in the late 1960s and 1970s. The Iraqi Jews were expelled mostly during the 1950s. 
&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;


The Jews from Arab countries were not dispersed by the Palestinians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dispersal of the Jews from Arab countries is remembered. There are many books on the subject.</p>
<p>The Jews from Arab countries were not, for the most part, refugees. Their dispersal is not called a nakba. They moved to Israel, France, Canada, the United States and other countries and they became citizens of those countries. </p>
<p>They did not all leave their home countries in 1948. They left in waves, mostly from the mid-1950s on, due to the policies of their governments &#8211; eg, Nasser nationalized private businesses and expelled all &#8216;foreigners&#8217; &#8211; Greeks, Italians, etc. Moroccan, Algerian and Tunisian Jews were never expelled. They left for a variety of reasons, largely having to do with their alignment with the French during the colonial era. Qadhafi expelled the Jews in the 1960s. There was a functioning, organized Jewish community in Syria until the 1980s. The Lebanese Jewish community actually grew larger after 1948, with its number declining in the late 1960s and 1970s. The Iraqi Jews were expelled mostly during the 1950s. </p>
<p>The Jews from Arab countries were not dispersed by the Palestinians.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomer</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61955</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 07:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61955</guid>
		<description>What about the Jewish Nakba?
The ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Sefardi Jews?
Is it worthy of being remembered?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the Jewish Nakba?<br />
The ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Sefardi Jews?<br />
Is it worthy of being remembered?</p>
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		<title>By: Rana</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61792</link>
		<dc:creator>Rana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 03:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61792</guid>
		<description>&quot;Only one baby out of five survived past the age of six months&quot;

wow. that itself is a Holocaust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Only one baby out of five survived past the age of six months&#8221;</p>
<p>wow. that itself is a Holocaust.</p>
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		<title>By: dickerson3870</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61601</link>
		<dc:creator>dickerson3870</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 01:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61601</guid>
		<description>RE: &quot;Very few Israelis and / or Jews are willing to accept and acknowledge the pain caused the Palestinian people by the Nakba. We deny, deflect, turn away, ignore.&quot; ~ Lisa Goldman

FROM GEORGE ORWELL: &quot;...All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. . . 
. . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. . .&quot; ~ George Orwell, &quot;Notes on Nationalism&quot; (1945)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: &#8220;Very few Israelis and / or Jews are willing to accept and acknowledge the pain caused the Palestinian people by the Nakba. We deny, deflect, turn away, ignore.&#8221; ~ Lisa Goldman</p>
<p>FROM GEORGE ORWELL: &#8220;&#8230;All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. . .<br />
. . . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. . .&#8221; ~ George Orwell, &#8220;Notes on Nationalism&#8221; (1945)</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Goldman</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-the-nakba-jewish-identity-and-memory/45898/comment-page-1/#comment-61523</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=45898#comment-61523</guid>
		<description>This article is not about comparing tragedies; in fact, there are no comparisons in the article. It is about acknowledging suffering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is not about comparing tragedies; in fact, there are no comparisons in the article. It is about acknowledging suffering.</p>
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