Comments on: On Jewish fears of Egyptian anti-Semitism in the post-Mubarak era http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Tue, 21 May 2013 18:59:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: daniel http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-50464 daniel Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:23:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-50464 Another reality check for Lisa: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Christian-family-evicted-from-Egypt-town-3422766.php While this story is not directly related to antisemitism, it demonstrates the warped perceptions some liberals may (still???) hold regarding Egypt. Another reality check for Lisa:
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Christian-family-evicted-from-Egypt-town-3422766.php

While this story is not directly related to antisemitism, it demonstrates the warped perceptions some liberals may (still???) hold regarding Egypt.

]]> By: Handala http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-50019 Handala Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:55:38 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-50019 Lisa, you lost me after your first sentence: "The Arab Spring presents a conundrum for many liberal Jews." The conundrum (if any) dates way back since 1948: the Nakba and theft of Arab land, still going on until this day! Lisa, you lost me after your first sentence: “The Arab Spring presents a conundrum for many liberal Jews.”
The conundrum (if any) dates way back since 1948: the Nakba and theft of Arab land, still going on until this day!

]]> By: daniel http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49975 daniel Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:52:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49975 "I did not meet any Egyptians who had read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Since when this is any standard measurement for anything??? I did a very crude check and found 78,000 web sites in Egypt alone (not a very "wired" country) with the elders of zion. Also, saying that poll after poll shows egyptians want stability has nothing to do with their potential internal antisemitism. Finally: "Amongst the politicians elected in Egypt’s first democratic elections, one still hears the occasional anti-Semitic remark. Fayza Abul Naga, a secular 61 year-old woman who is a holdover from the Mubarak regime, recently claimed that Freedom House, an American NGO that conducts research into democracy advocacy, was ‘a tool of the ‘Jewish lobby.”’ This is ugly and regrettable, but not, I think, insidious —" Again the writer "thinks". Well, here are some FACTS about Muslim Brotherhood, now considered the "moderates". I direct you to where their site says Jews are the source of all evil in the world. http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/51/5992.htm “I did not meet any Egyptians who had read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” Since when this is any standard measurement for anything???
I did a very crude check and found 78,000 web sites in Egypt alone (not a very “wired” country) with the elders of zion.
Also, saying that poll after poll shows egyptians want stability has nothing to do with their potential internal antisemitism.
Finally: “Amongst the politicians elected in Egypt’s first democratic elections, one still hears the occasional anti-Semitic remark. Fayza Abul Naga, a secular 61 year-old woman who is a holdover from the Mubarak regime, recently claimed that Freedom House, an American NGO that conducts research into democracy advocacy, was ‘a tool of the ‘Jewish lobby.”’
This is ugly and regrettable, but not, I think, insidious —”
Again the writer “thinks”. Well, here are some FACTS about Muslim Brotherhood, now considered the “moderates”. I direct you to where their site says Jews are the source of all evil in the world.
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/51/5992.htm

]]> By: Piotr Berman http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49930 Piotr Berman Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:56:20 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49930 From news: Miss Logan was attacked around 1am as she filmed in the square. Egyptian state media had been publishing negative stories about foreign journalists, with many reports alleging that many Israeli spies were masquerading as news crews. -------- So this is a typical case of a xenophobic hysteria that was fomented by the regime. It is even possible that undercover regime thugs took the lead in tormenting Lara Logan. In the report of Daily News, the shouts were "Jew! Israeli spy!" exactly as the state media alleged. In general, the news that Arab get about Jews are of the kind "no news is the good news". For example, there are surprisingly few stories about repressions in the West Bank in Arab media, but as far as I could see, NONE about Israelis joining protests there. So fewer pictures of Muslim victims of IDF may help. I would not put large hopes in popularity of showing Persian victims. From news: Miss Logan was attacked around 1am as she filmed in the square.

Egyptian state media had been publishing negative stories about foreign journalists, with many reports alleging that many Israeli spies were masquerading as news crews.

——–

So this is a typical case of a xenophobic hysteria that was fomented by the regime. It is even possible that undercover regime thugs took the lead in tormenting Lara Logan. In the report of Daily News, the shouts were “Jew! Israeli spy!” exactly as the state media alleged.

In general, the news that Arab get about Jews are of the kind “no news is the good news”. For example, there are surprisingly few stories about repressions in the West Bank in Arab media, but as far as I could see, NONE about Israelis joining protests there. So fewer pictures of Muslim victims of IDF may help. I would not put large hopes in popularity of showing Persian victims.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49917 XYZ Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:58:44 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49917 Lara Logan HERSELF stated that the mob was yelling "She's a Jew, She's a Jew!". Lara Logan HERSELF stated that the mob was yelling “She’s a Jew, She’s a Jew!”.

]]> By: Elisabeth http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49916 Elisabeth Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:51:19 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49916 Wow, when guys start to hang out as the victim when a woman is sexually assaulted, you have a real case of victimhood obsession. Bill Pearlman, has it occurred to you that Lara Logan was attacked because she was a WOMAN, and that - unfortunately - men all over the world engage in these practices? Wow, when guys start to hang out as the victim when a woman is sexually assaulted, you have a real case of victimhood obsession.
Bill Pearlman,
has it occurred to you that Lara Logan was attacked because she was a WOMAN, and that – unfortunately – men all over the world engage in these practices?

]]> By: pabelmont http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49914 pabelmont Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:43:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49914 "On the contrary, though, I would posit that anti-Semitism festered in Egypt as a result of Mubarak’s policies, and that it will naturally fade away if Egypt succeeds in making the transition to a more transparent, democratic society." . I agree. Anti-Semitism will fade, especially as Egyptians get better educated and get a free(r) press and they learn to make a distinction between Israel and "Jews" clearer. I would then expect more anti-Zionism and less anti-Semitism. . If Israel surprised absolutely everyone and agreed to a peace with territory along the pre-1967 lines with all settlers and the wall removed, and the Palestinians got their state and a corridor from Gaza to East Jerusalem (in exchange for an Israeli corridor to the Wailing Wall) -- I would expect even anti-Zionism to dry up. But this seems unlikely to happen absent truly massive international pressure on Israel, so Egyptian (and other) anti-Zionism seems here to stay for a long while. . The occupation is like a fire under a pressure cooker, and growing hotter as time goes on. So I'd expect either an explosion or for someone to turn off the fire. Be best if Israel did it, but not in the cards. “On the contrary, though, I would posit that anti-Semitism festered in Egypt as a result of Mubarak’s policies, and that it will naturally fade away if Egypt succeeds in making the transition to a more transparent, democratic society.”
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I agree. Anti-Semitism will fade, especially as Egyptians get better educated and get a free(r) press and they learn to make a distinction between Israel and “Jews” clearer. I would then expect more anti-Zionism and less anti-Semitism.
.
If Israel surprised absolutely everyone and agreed to a peace with territory along the pre-1967 lines with all settlers and the wall removed, and the Palestinians got their state and a corridor from Gaza to East Jerusalem (in exchange for an Israeli corridor to the Wailing Wall) — I would expect even anti-Zionism to dry up.

But this seems unlikely to happen absent truly massive international pressure on Israel, so Egyptian (and other) anti-Zionism seems here to stay for a long while.
.
The occupation is like a fire under a pressure cooker, and growing hotter as time goes on. So I’d expect either an explosion or for someone to turn off the fire. Be best if Israel did it, but not in the cards.

]]> By: Piotr Berman http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49884 Piotr Berman Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:59:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49884 AT, I am afraid that on Iran issue you are a bit delusional. Iran does not have any overt nuclear weapon program, so an attack has to be futile, because you cannot destroy what does not exists. If Iran also has a covert weapon program then you do not where it is. Known targets are modular, dispersed, replaceable. The nuclear program in Iran does not make much sense EXCEPT as a bait for Israel. In case of Egypt, to the degree it remains a dictatorship, it will undermine it. Parliament is already demanding to stop accepting American aid to the military. To the degree Egypt is democratic, the attack can be a step toward an anti-Israeli alliance. And nothing as crude as a war is needed to make Israel uncomfortable. Iran will announce victory, total failure of Zionist attack, steadfastness in the pursuit of atomic energy and national dignity etc. It will also announce temporary ban on traffic through Hormuz as a necessary safety measure. Israel will probably also attack Hezbollah and Gaza first ("optical" provocations may be provided) and pretty bloody exchange of missiles will ensue. Arabs will see a mad aggressor lashing out in all directions, and getting adequate resistance only from allies of Iran. Popularity and influence of Saudis and Gulf Arabs may dive. Or perhaps not. The main point is that Iran cannot loose much and Israel can loose a lot. AT,

I am afraid that on Iran issue you are a bit delusional. Iran does not have any overt nuclear weapon program, so an attack has to be futile, because you cannot destroy what does not exists. If Iran also has a covert weapon program then you do not where it is. Known targets are modular, dispersed, replaceable.

The nuclear program in Iran does not make much sense EXCEPT as a bait for Israel. In case of Egypt, to the degree it remains a dictatorship, it will undermine it. Parliament is already demanding to stop accepting American aid to the military. To the degree Egypt is democratic, the attack can be a step toward an anti-Israeli alliance. And nothing as crude as a war is needed to make Israel uncomfortable.

Iran will announce victory, total failure of Zionist attack, steadfastness in the pursuit of atomic energy and national dignity etc. It will also announce temporary ban on traffic through Hormuz as a necessary safety measure.

Israel will probably also attack Hezbollah and Gaza first (“optical” provocations may be provided) and pretty bloody exchange of missiles will ensue. Arabs will see a mad aggressor lashing out in all directions, and getting adequate resistance only from allies of Iran. Popularity and influence of Saudis and Gulf Arabs may dive.

Or perhaps not. The main point is that Iran cannot loose much and Israel can loose a lot.

]]> By: Piotr Berman http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49878 Piotr Berman Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:33:10 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49878 "SOME settlers treat the Arabs badly..." The essence of settlements is to treat Arabs badly. Some settlers do it "manually" so to speak, some merely keep demanding to demolish Arab communities and IDF does it for them, all Palestinians in area C are deprived of most elementary rights so to convert that area into settlement. So some settlers may not physically abuse Arabs, but that perhaps out of sloth. A few weeks ago Swedish education minister made a trip to Hebron, perhaps to try the recommendation of Israeli education minister. He invited a Palestinian to participate in his tour. A settler woman noticed the Palestinian and attacked the entourage with fists. Afterwards the leader of the settlers in Hebron, appropriately named Wilder, wrote a letter blaming the Swede for bringing the offensive presence of an Arab to Arab-rein part of Hebron. "Of course", IDF ejected the Swedes as demanded by the settlers. It is not much of an incident, but the intensity of individual hatred and the degree of state support for that hatred is hard to phatom. Imagine that a Jew is spotted in Cairo in a company of a visiting minister, enraged citizens attack the party with fists and police moves the party out of Cairo. Hatred of Arabs is very intense in Israel, particularly in all institutions that are related to security, as the people who work there seem to be indoctrinated to be vigilant toward "enemies". If you want to see "howling, bloodthirsty mob" you may watch some tapes from Knesset on YouTube. Conversely, average Arab does not like Jews. The question is: how intensely. If not refreshed by the stream of appalling news, such hatred tends to fade to the level of disparaging jokes etc. But Israel is producing these appalling news very regularly, so the flame of hatred is very much there. Surely Egyptians should react to news more philosophically, but this is not the way Israeli react, so they should not be surprised that Egyptians are no better humans than Jews. “SOME settlers treat the Arabs badly…”

The essence of settlements is to treat Arabs badly. Some settlers do it “manually” so to speak, some merely keep demanding to demolish Arab communities and IDF does it for them, all Palestinians in area C are deprived of most elementary rights so to convert that area into settlement. So some settlers may not physically abuse Arabs, but that perhaps out of sloth.

A few weeks ago Swedish education minister made a trip to Hebron, perhaps to try the recommendation of Israeli education minister. He invited a Palestinian to participate in his tour. A settler woman noticed the Palestinian and attacked the entourage with fists. Afterwards the leader of the settlers in Hebron, appropriately named Wilder, wrote a letter blaming the Swede for bringing the offensive presence of an Arab to Arab-rein part of Hebron. “Of course”, IDF ejected the Swedes as demanded by the settlers.

It is not much of an incident, but the intensity of individual hatred and the degree of state support for that hatred is hard to phatom. Imagine that a Jew is spotted in Cairo in a company of a visiting minister, enraged citizens attack the party with fists and police moves the party out of Cairo.

Hatred of Arabs is very intense in Israel, particularly in all institutions that are related to security, as the people who work there seem to be indoctrinated to be vigilant toward “enemies”. If you want to see “howling, bloodthirsty mob” you may watch some tapes from Knesset on YouTube.

Conversely, average Arab does not like Jews. The question is: how intensely. If not refreshed by the stream of appalling news, such hatred tends to fade to the level of disparaging jokes etc. But Israel is producing these appalling news very regularly, so the flame of hatred is very much there. Surely Egyptians should react to news more philosophically, but this is not the way Israeli react, so they should not be surprised that Egyptians are no better humans than Jews.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/on-jewish-fears-of-egyptian-anti-semitism-in-the-post-mubarak-era/38623/comment-page-1/#comment-49858 XYZ Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:39:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38623#comment-49858 AT- Here you do EXACTLY the same think you condemn the Progressives for, you ratchet down the antisemitism of the Left. You see SOME settlers treat the Arabs badly, so you then blame ALL settlers for this attitude, which then justifies, in your eyes, ALL the Arabs hating ALL the settlers, even though we established that there are settlers who don't act that way! AT-
Here you do EXACTLY the same think you condemn the Progressives for, you ratchet down the antisemitism of the Left. You see SOME settlers treat the Arabs badly, so you then blame ALL settlers for this attitude, which then justifies, in your eyes, ALL the Arabs hating ALL the settlers, even though we established that there are settlers who don’t act that way!

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