Comments on: On democracy: There’s nothing “left” about the Zionist left

By: Cortez

Cortez — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:28:51 +0000

“Also, if violence is acceptable for the Palestinian Arabs then surely it is acceptable for Israel too? It works both ways. But back to the pre WW2 diaspora Jews, what options were they offered?”
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Many of the Pre WW2 diaspora Ashkenazic Jews had other homelands though? Some even had both the U.S. and Europe.
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The Palestinian peace offers in 2001 and 2008 were atrocious and mostly a farce when conditions on the ground were factored in.

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:34:10 +0000

@Greg
When I said, “fair enough” above, I meant your description of quetism as opposed to non violence. I don’t think I agree that Palestinian violence is acceptable because unlike the diaspora Jews, they have and had an option to end the occupation. Certainly they were offered peace offers in 2001 and 2008. Also, if violence is acceptable for the Palestinian Arabs then surely it is acceptable for Israel too? It works both ways. But back to the pre WW2 diaspora Jews, what options were they offered?

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:51:00 +0000

@Greg
Fair enough.

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 06:30:36 +0000

Bosko,
Your describing quietism, not non violence. Non violence is active resistence. That’s why I said that Frezza misused the word, at least my understanding of it. Quietism is the refusal to respond or engage. Non cooperation, when Gandhi’s movement shut down the country in strike, was not quietist. Nor were the lines of resisters, allowing themselves to be hit on the head with police sticks, quietist, for they actively marched towards the police to be so hit.
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And, as I pointed out, Frezza’s misuse of the word actually implies Palestinian violence is acceptable, for the very reasons you give.
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I’m getting crazy now, time to sign off. Happy day to you (not night).

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:53:32 +0000

Greg
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With respect, as a non Jewish person, I don’t think you understand the mindset of the pre-holocaust diaspora Jews. I thing Frezza hit the nail right on the head. I say this as a child of two holocaust survivors. The motto of most pre WW2 Jews was not to make a fuss, not to make waves. Just fit in and do one’s best even in the face of direct ‘in your face’ antisemitism and anti Jewish laws like Numerus Clausus and whatever else.
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I’ll say it again, Frezza hit the nail right on the head. Of course, there always were exceptions but the exceptions make the rule.

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:43:47 +0000

Greg: “Do you ever sleep?”
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You forgot that I reside in the southern hemisphere where night is day and day is night. And today, I have a bit of time on my hand and an inclination to post

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:38:23 +0000

Bosko,
I know Frezza was refering to pre-Holocaust Jewery. He used the term incorrectly, thereby masking human possibility. Perhaps “quietism” would have been better. But the reality is that nonviolence is a term used often by those sympathetic to Palestinians. Strangely, one might conclude from Frezza’s reasoning that suicide bombing is the way to go, for them. Thereby making it even more imperative that you keep tight control. It’s all a zero sum game: core to your logic. As Barak said, when asked what he would do if a Palestinian, “I’d be a terrorist.” And so we are all trapped in the next suicide or Cast Lead. Perhaps this is all God will let us be.

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:31:11 +0000

Bosko,
I know how you feel, I think. Both sides (well, there are more than two sides, really) like to goad the other. The post goad reply makes them feel good. That’s how we all get trapped in “only these views are possible” langauge.
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Do you ever sleep?

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:22:30 +0000

And Berl is not alone who reacts that way on this site. That’s why I end up in so many skirmishes. There are a lot of angry people who post here. I guess I am not that surprised. I was just hoping for a bit better but hey. That’s life. I was wrong to hope so. Like I said, both sides of politics are guilty of this type of behavior.

By: Bosko

Bosko — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:17:01 +0000

Oh and Greg, I have not set out to laugh anybody out of a group. Least of all you because you have always been polite and respectful even when we disagree. But have you seen how Berl dealt with me? Can you blame me if I react to him the same way?