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	<title>Comments on: On anti-normalization, dialogue and activism</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-79214</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 18:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-79214</guid>
		<description>The Palestinian narrative should be respected and understood, but also put into context, just like everything else. It is a reality that many Palestinians were forced from their land and massacred by many sides. It is also a reality that out of control Soviet backed Arab regimes continuously put miscalculated aggression aimed against Israel to destroy her ahead of promoting legitimate Palestinian interests or the wellbeing of their own people. There is a balance between understanding the narrative of the other and accepting it as THE narrative. Why it seems Israeli and Jewish-American left-wing activists fail to capture the attention of anyone in the center is because they fail to acknowledge the mentality born out of &quot;The Six Day War.&quot; Israelis are in a position of privilege and power compared to Palestinians if you want to seal your conception of the conflict at the borders of historical Palestine. But that is just as naive as only looking at the conflict as Israel vs the Muslim world without recognizing the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic. There is some middle ground, and since liberals always talk about recognizing the narrative of the other regardless of its truth, how bout you do the same for the right-wingers and the vast center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Palestinian narrative should be respected and understood, but also put into context, just like everything else. It is a reality that many Palestinians were forced from their land and massacred by many sides. It is also a reality that out of control Soviet backed Arab regimes continuously put miscalculated aggression aimed against Israel to destroy her ahead of promoting legitimate Palestinian interests or the wellbeing of their own people. There is a balance between understanding the narrative of the other and accepting it as THE narrative. Why it seems Israeli and Jewish-American left-wing activists fail to capture the attention of anyone in the center is because they fail to acknowledge the mentality born out of &#8220;The Six Day War.&#8221; Israelis are in a position of privilege and power compared to Palestinians if you want to seal your conception of the conflict at the borders of historical Palestine. But that is just as naive as only looking at the conflict as Israel vs the Muslim world without recognizing the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic. There is some middle ground, and since liberals always talk about recognizing the narrative of the other regardless of its truth, how bout you do the same for the right-wingers and the vast center.</p>
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		<title>By: JCSM</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-76378</link>
		<dc:creator>JCSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-76378</guid>
		<description>The Zionist invader colonists born in Stolen or Occupied Palestine are no different from Pieds Noirs born in French Algeria.

They can certainly leave just as the Pieds Noirs did and certainly should.

The German Nazis sent German colonists to live in Occupied Eastern European territories. These colonists left those territories with the defeat of Nazi Germany. Once the Zionist state collapses the Zionist invader colonists should similarly leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Zionist invader colonists born in Stolen or Occupied Palestine are no different from Pieds Noirs born in French Algeria.</p>
<p>They can certainly leave just as the Pieds Noirs did and certainly should.</p>
<p>The German Nazis sent German colonists to live in Occupied Eastern European territories. These colonists left those territories with the defeat of Nazi Germany. Once the Zionist state collapses the Zionist invader colonists should similarly leave.</p>
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		<title>By: JCSM</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-76377</link>
		<dc:creator>JCSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-76377</guid>
		<description>Like European Christians, European Jews have no ancestral connection to Palestine whatsoever. 

Ethnic Ashkenazim are descendants of various Eastern European and Southern Russian populations that converted to some form of Judaic religion in the last two thousand years.

Zionist (Jewish Nazi) primordialist ideology is more extreme than Zionist primordialist Nazi ideology.

The real homeland of Jews consists of the transnational network of business and trade relationships that Jews have built among themselves since the crystallization of Rabbinic Judaism in the 10th century.

How Jewish National Consolidation Works

Before the nature of Jewish national consolidation can be addressed, a serious look  at historical Jewish political economics is required as well as the broadening  or rethinking of certain basic concepts in political science and economic  theory.
 
The critical approach requires us to start thinking in terms of  transnational politics instead of local, national, and international politics. A  new framework should elucidate both transnational Jewish Zionist and  transnational Arab-Islamic politics as well as other similar transnational  political situations.
 
Assuming that national  consolidation must be territorial and linguistic as has generally been the case  with modern European nationalism is far too limiting. Historically Jews constituted a metapopulation  (a term from statistical population biology) united by an international trade  network and obedience to a sacred law that served as a sort of universal  commercial code.
 
As faith declined in Europe, Jewish leaders looked for other  means to maintain Jewish social economic networks of trust in order to maintain  Jewish incomes. Commitment to building a Jewish state in Palestine was one of  several proposed substitutes for adherence to sacred law.
 
From this standpoint, consolidating a virtual  Jewish national consciousness is a Jewish Diaspora phenomenon that defines  modern Jewish transnational politics.
 
The concept of  virtual state consolidation explains 

(1) why there was an  Israel Lobby for approximately four decades before there was a State of Israel  and  

(2) why Israeli politics  often seems so much less important than Jewish Diaspora politics,

(3) why Jewish political and economic behavior so often looks conspiratorial, and

(4) why Jewish aggression so often expresses itself economically,  so often includes character assassination or defamation, and so often involves subversion or manipulation of third parties to do they dirty work of harming those that Jewish leaders target for destruction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like European Christians, European Jews have no ancestral connection to Palestine whatsoever. </p>
<p>Ethnic Ashkenazim are descendants of various Eastern European and Southern Russian populations that converted to some form of Judaic religion in the last two thousand years.</p>
<p>Zionist (Jewish Nazi) primordialist ideology is more extreme than Zionist primordialist Nazi ideology.</p>
<p>The real homeland of Jews consists of the transnational network of business and trade relationships that Jews have built among themselves since the crystallization of Rabbinic Judaism in the 10th century.</p>
<p>How Jewish National Consolidation Works</p>
<p>Before the nature of Jewish national consolidation can be addressed, a serious look  at historical Jewish political economics is required as well as the broadening  or rethinking of certain basic concepts in political science and economic  theory.</p>
<p>The critical approach requires us to start thinking in terms of  transnational politics instead of local, national, and international politics. A  new framework should elucidate both transnational Jewish Zionist and  transnational Arab-Islamic politics as well as other similar transnational  political situations.</p>
<p>Assuming that national  consolidation must be territorial and linguistic as has generally been the case  with modern European nationalism is far too limiting. Historically Jews constituted a metapopulation  (a term from statistical population biology) united by an international trade  network and obedience to a sacred law that served as a sort of universal  commercial code.</p>
<p>As faith declined in Europe, Jewish leaders looked for other  means to maintain Jewish social economic networks of trust in order to maintain  Jewish incomes. Commitment to building a Jewish state in Palestine was one of  several proposed substitutes for adherence to sacred law.</p>
<p>From this standpoint, consolidating a virtual  Jewish national consciousness is a Jewish Diaspora phenomenon that defines  modern Jewish transnational politics.</p>
<p>The concept of  virtual state consolidation explains </p>
<p>(1) why there was an  Israel Lobby for approximately four decades before there was a State of Israel  and  </p>
<p>(2) why Israeli politics  often seems so much less important than Jewish Diaspora politics,</p>
<p>(3) why Jewish political and economic behavior so often looks conspiratorial, and</p>
<p>(4) why Jewish aggression so often expresses itself economically,  so often includes character assassination or defamation, and so often involves subversion or manipulation of third parties to do they dirty work of harming those that Jewish leaders target for destruction.</p>
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		<title>By: Bluegrass Picker of Afula</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75871</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluegrass Picker of Afula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75871</guid>
		<description>David:   sorry to burden you with expectations that you might do a 30-second Google search, but.....   Bangalees fought for their independence over the right to use their language as a National Language.  Just as occurred in 1948 with the Hebrews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David:   sorry to burden you with expectations that you might do a 30-second Google search, but&#8230;..   Bangalees fought for their independence over the right to use their language as a National Language.  Just as occurred in 1948 with the Hebrews.</p>
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		<title>By: Bluegrass Picker of Afula</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75869</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluegrass Picker of Afula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75869</guid>
		<description>so Mathilde, are you willing to apply that same criteria to everyone in Europe who is not a pure Neanderthal?   Or to everyone in South America who is not pure Aztec? Or everyone in Canada who is not pure Inuit?  Or everyone in Japan who is not pure Ainu?

Or does your heart only bleed when there&#039;s a Hebrew-speaker to be exiled?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so Mathilde, are you willing to apply that same criteria to everyone in Europe who is not a pure Neanderthal?   Or to everyone in South America who is not pure Aztec? Or everyone in Canada who is not pure Inuit?  Or everyone in Japan who is not pure Ainu?</p>
<p>Or does your heart only bleed when there&#8217;s a Hebrew-speaker to be exiled?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom P.</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75862</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75862</guid>
		<description>say more about the Ladino press?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>say more about the Ladino press?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75782</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75782</guid>
		<description>sorry, not &#039;when Pakistan broke free&#039; - rather, &#039;when Pakistan resisted Bangladesh breaking free&#039;.

Similarly, Ethiopia/Eritrea. Western Sahara. etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, not &#8216;when Pakistan broke free&#8217; &#8211; rather, &#8216;when Pakistan resisted Bangladesh breaking free&#8217;.</p>
<p>Similarly, Ethiopia/Eritrea. Western Sahara. etc.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75779</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75779</guid>
		<description>&quot;partly because borders are a fairly modern concept – in the Ottoman years they were porous&quot;

The Ottoman Empire most certainly had borders, and strove to extend them - largely by defeating rival &quot;ethno religious states&quot;. You might as well argue that the British Empire was much better than India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, and that these countries should be reintegrated into that Empire. 

&quot;Any ethno-religious framework restricts justice and perpetuates further violence by treating rights as privileges and community as an exclusive club, and the creation of two such clubs side by side is not going to change that.&quot;

In which case, why shouldn&#039;t Bangladesh be re-integrated into Pakistan. Oh, granted, a million died when Pakistan broke free, but at least it wouldn&#039;t be an ethno religious state. Ditto, Yugoslavia - what possible objection could the Bosniaks have to being brought back into that great socialist federation? And so on. 

Your argument is an argument for Empire, but you don&#039;t realise it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;partly because borders are a fairly modern concept – in the Ottoman years they were porous&#8221;</p>
<p>The Ottoman Empire most certainly had borders, and strove to extend them &#8211; largely by defeating rival &#8220;ethno religious states&#8221;. You might as well argue that the British Empire was much better than India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, and that these countries should be reintegrated into that Empire. </p>
<p>&#8220;Any ethno-religious framework restricts justice and perpetuates further violence by treating rights as privileges and community as an exclusive club, and the creation of two such clubs side by side is not going to change that.&#8221;</p>
<p>In which case, why shouldn&#8217;t Bangladesh be re-integrated into Pakistan. Oh, granted, a million died when Pakistan broke free, but at least it wouldn&#8217;t be an ethno religious state. Ditto, Yugoslavia &#8211; what possible objection could the Bosniaks have to being brought back into that great socialist federation? And so on. </p>
<p>Your argument is an argument for Empire, but you don&#8217;t realise it.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Schlomka</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75771</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Schlomka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75771</guid>
		<description>Although Uri Davis should answer for himself, he did declare that his conversion to Islam was for &#039;national&#039; reasons, as was his immersion in Palestinian society. In his words he is &#039; A Palestinian of Hebrew origins&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although Uri Davis should answer for himself, he did declare that his conversion to Islam was for &#8216;national&#8217; reasons, as was his immersion in Palestinian society. In his words he is &#8216; A Palestinian of Hebrew origins&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Pollock</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/on-anti-normalization-dialogue-and-activism/55611/comment-page-1/#comment-75746</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Pollock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 04:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=55611#comment-75746</guid>
		<description>Vicky:  &quot;I deal with specific people&quot; (the last phrase before you hit the word maximum).  Doing so leaves no excuses.  You can&#039;t hide behind race, even behind family; nor ask God for a warrant.  Each faced person has the potential to disrupt all protection, and protection is what humans create, as they can.  It calls for a humanity not yet made and never to be made; yet to be called nonetheless.  You will never achieve what you envision, but you will be an aid to others in their vision.  Heaven is found in the step, not in any place.

Noam Sheizaf, you have a knack for beginning remarkable threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicky:  &#8220;I deal with specific people&#8221; (the last phrase before you hit the word maximum).  Doing so leaves no excuses.  You can&#8217;t hide behind race, even behind family; nor ask God for a warrant.  Each faced person has the potential to disrupt all protection, and protection is what humans create, as they can.  It calls for a humanity not yet made and never to be made; yet to be called nonetheless.  You will never achieve what you envision, but you will be an aid to others in their vision.  Heaven is found in the step, not in any place.</p>
<p>Noam Sheizaf, you have a knack for beginning remarkable threads.</p>
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