Comments on: No, a woman’s voice is not “pubic” – the song must go on

By: Yam Erez

Yam Erez — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:13:37 +0000

Excellent piece, well translated. I heard female soldiers were doing the same last week. Alas, my daughter, who is a singer, just finished her IDF service. I’ll remind her that wherever she is on Friday Nov. 11, to sing her heart (and pubes!) out.

By: Dena Shunra

Dena Shunra — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 04:44:41 +0000

@Piotr – the words ערב (as in pleasant) and ערווה (as in pubis) are not spelled the same way. The v sound is made with a bet in one case, a vav in the other. My guess is that the similarity in sounds is just a flimsy excuse, made up by the rabbis for the sole purpose of evicting women from the public space.

I think the same works for reversing the invitation for the beloved to sound her voice and turning it into “shut up, woman, that wasn’t YOU being invited”.

By: aristeides

aristeides — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:33:35 +0000

“Blessed art Thou, oh Lord our God, that I was not born a woman.”

By: תל אביב חופשית

תל אביב חופשית — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:33:29 +0000

If you want to join an activity against racist buses, email your name and phone number to separation.bus@gmail.com.
We need men and women that will break this racism.
Thanks

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:19:22 +0000

Like most of the ignorants, I just know what Wikipedia says: This [prohibition to listen to female singing voice] is derived from Song of Solomon 2:14: “Let me hear your voice, for your voice is sweet (“arev”) and your face is beautiful.” The Talmud classifies this as ervah (literally “nakedness”).

Quick perusal of links allows to check that Song of Songs symbolizes the love between the Jewish People and God, so … I guess that the Sages figured that to symbolize spiritual love the Song has to have some relationship with the experience of physical love, so various acts described in the Song (like listening to female voice, smelling expensive perfume and knocking at doors) may lead to sexual arousal.

Rather strange way of deriving a prohibition from “Let me hear your voice” which is rather affirmative.

By: GONZU

GONZU — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:13:25 +0000

@Mitchell: You are indeed missing something — the point. As pointed out in the article, public spaces for women in Israel are shrinking, while law enforcement bodies — though commanded to do so by the judicial system — refuse to defend the rights of women to move freely, to see, and to be seen.
Regarding the delicate sensibilities of Haredi men: I could not be less concerned, and why should I be? What law absolves them of their responsibilities to conduct themselves appropriately without causing harm to others? It is well known that Golda Meir, in response to the proposal that a curfew on women be imposed to protect them from a rape epidemic, declared “But it is the men who are attacking the women. If there is to be a curfew, let the men stay at home.” This incident, which occurred some 40-50 years ago, reveals a history that does speak to Aristides’ point about the value of women by Haredi society. I humbly suggest that religious men return to the books and begin to develop strategies for maintaining control over themselves (if that is indeed what is at stake here), as some women will not acquiesce to their erasure from public space.

By: Mitchell Cohen

Mitchell Cohen — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:42:16 +0000

Am I missing something here? Are woman forbidden from singing in the public streets of Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem? Not that I know of. When I read about this incident, the way I see it, it isn’t about women’s rights, but about this particular woman having the attitude “you are going to hear me sing whether you like it or not”. Agree or disagree with observant Jews beliefs and lifestyle, these soldiers (who put their lives on the line for this country) had their religious sensitivities violated unnecessarily and, with good will from both sides (i.e. the religious soldiers and the organizers of the ceremony), an arrangement could have been made in advance, where nobody’s sensitivities would have been offended. However, it was more important to stick it to the religious soldiers (who are amongst the most motivated to serve in combat units) and to hell with them. And then, the anti-religious left complains that the Haredim are not serving?!?!

By: sh

sh — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:28:21 +0000

Dena, snap! Same memory.
.
Blamethewoman’s as old as Adam and Eve. And if Muslims and Christians are honest with themselves, it’s not unique to Jews either. What’s new is that it’s no longer politically correct to say it and politically expedient – at least here in Israel – to turn a blind eye.
.
Remember the Lorelei?
“….The comb she holds is golden,
She sings a song as well
Whose melody binds an enthralling
And overpowering spell.

In his little boat, the boatman
Is seized with a savage woe,
He’d rather look up at the mountain
Than down at the rocks below.

I think that the waves will devour
The boatman and boat as one;
And this by her song’s sheer power
Fair Lorelei has done.
http://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com/2009/11/heinrich-heine-lorelei-from-german.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJweIV8OqT8&feature=related

By: Dena Shunra

Dena Shunra — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:01:50 +0000

Nice coverage of this initiative appeared this morning in Haaretz.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/musical-protests-planned-to-counter-taboo-on-female-singers-1.392006

Personally, this caught my fancy because of the very strong memory of being silenced as a young woman, just as I was coming out of childhood. The silencing was clear, immediate, and brooked no appeal.

It is so good to know that women are saying “I am woman, watch me roar!”

By: Ben Israel

Ben Israel — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 05:17:26 +0000

Aristeides-
Could you elaborate on what you meant that “women have no value” in Haredi society?