Comments on: Loyalty laws draw unexpected supporters and opponents

By: Empress Trudy

Empress Trudy — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:27:58 +0000

And while I am sure you knew this already, it bears repeating that in the Druze community, once you leave, you are dead to them. You are shunned, forgotten and you can’t go back. So the fact that Druze serve and otherwise participate in Israeli live to the absolute exile of themselves from their own community speaks volumes. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing that the Druze (and B’Hai) have to recognize where the best course of enlightened self interest is and not, as the Arabs are wont, to sit in the dust for a few hundred years banging their bowls demanding someone raise them up. A key point in all of this is another Arab state in YESHA will be run by people who don’t want to run a state or participate in the growth and development of one and don’t have the cultural context of doing what is best because it is best and instead pursue a national policy of failure in the faint hope that someone will take more pity on them than they do.

By: Empress Trudy

Empress Trudy — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:25:17 +0000

The Haredim are excluded from national service. Arabs, etc. are permitted to opt out if they so wish. A small but crucial difference. In a country where national service is such a central part of social and personal advancement, taking one’s self out of the equation seems to be an insufferably bad plan. Moreover there are non-military options for national service. So it just appears dull to not do that. Oh well, can’t make people act rationally.

By: Leonid Levin

Leonid Levin — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 17:54:37 +0000

Dahlia, let me put it this way: I’m not aware of any of my relatives, school or university friends, who immigrated as teenagers or young adults between 1990 and 1995 and who served in the IDF, except a younger female cousin and except some who did take part in some kind of annual duty for a couple of weeks each year. The new generation of our family (my nephews now in their early 20s) do serve in the army.

This may stem from the fact that in the USSR, many people, and Jews in particular, saw the army as a dangerous place and a waste of time.

Most of my Jewish friends and family members who went to live in Israel, went on to study in universities and then got children pretty early, so they didn’t have to go into the army. From what I heard, a couple did fake some illness.

I also hear stories of young “Russians” leaving Israel for the US and Canada to dodge the army service.

But this is purely anecdotal. Maybe you can ask for statistics at the Ministry of Defence?

By: Nancy

Nancy — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:21:24 +0000

For those of us who focus on the Israel-Palestine issue and the inherent imbalance of power in that relationship, we forget that within Israeli society as a whole there is a constant tension between many groups that split along a variety of lines including ethnicity, religion and religious practice among others — all jockeying for power. It’s no surprise then, that an Israeli Druze politician would support legislation that might further the advancement of other Israeli Druze (because many do serve in the IDF) even if it gives abundant privilege to the already privileged while diminishing the rights of others, which would include the Druze. Looking at a legislative action with the support the Loyalty Law has in the Knesset, it might seem logical to advance it just because a single piece of it may be to the benefit of one’s own. It’s a shame, but Israel is a stratified society where ethnicity can be either a reward or a curse – even for Israeli Jews let alone other groups of non-Jews. That can be said of many places, of course, but it’s important to remember this is part of who Israel is too and that is often forgotten. When you understand the depth of inequality within Israeli society more broadly, you are able to understand how little hope there is for peace and justice for Palestinians if left in the hands of Israeli law makers. It would be like leaving the equality of African-Americans in the hands of 1960s Southern Law Makers. Enough said?

By: Dahlia Scheindlin

Dahlia Scheindlin — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:38:00 +0000

Leonid, that’s an interesting point and I would not have known it but for your comment…do you have anything beyond anecdotal evidence? Or any articles written about it? I’m sure not very many people want to admit that!

By: Leonid Levin

Leonid Levin — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:33:41 +0000

The funny thing is that many Soviet Jews who immigrated to Israel never served in the army. Most of my school and university friends, who went to live in Israel in their late teens and early 20s, dodged the army service under various pretexts, like university study, kids, some even pretending they were unfit for service or even faking some psychic disorder.