11 comments for ”Netanyahu’s promise to dismantle settlements is a big step backward“

    
  1. “We need to do things that will placate the law enforcement community so we can protect the criminals.”

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  3. One correction, Roi, the settlements are NOT “illegal” under international law. There are opinions in both directions. The US stopped saying they are illegal after Jimmy Carter made that claim and he was shown it was not at all clear. But, in the end, what difference does it make? The question is ultimately political.

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  5. Ben – To the best of my knowledge, the view that the settlements are legal is a distinctly minority view among scholars. It is not endorsed by any international body, or by any state accept Israel, and even the US is at best agnostic on this issue.

    Furthermore, even if you read, for example, Israel’s position on the issue as stated on the MFA website, you can see that it is based on at least two factual assertions which are patently false:

    a. That the building of the settlements has not caused the displacement of Palestinians.

    b. That the movement of settlers into the OPT is voluntary, in the sense that it does not amount to a “transfer” of population by the government of Israel. Considering the various inducements provided to settlers, and the fact that Israel built the homes for many if not all of them, it is absurd to argue Israel has not “transfered” its population to the OPT.

    Also, the settlements violate the whole premise of international law in regards to control of territory. This body of law recognizes only two possible statuses of any given territory: either it is a part of a sovereign state, in which case everyone born there is a citizen of that state; or it is under the custodianship of a foreign state, in which case the custodian (occupier, mandate-holder, etc.)must manage this territory to the benefit of its inhabitants. The whole settlement enterprise is based on using the resources of the West Bank to the exclusive benefit of Israel’s own citizens.

    To sum up – I stand by my assertion.

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  7. Let’s say that you could prove to me that the settlements are illegal. So what? No one is in a position to enforce the matter. The Israeli legal Establishment has NOT ruled that the settlements are illegal and they represent the sovereign body in charge of the territories. But let’s say that I could convince you that the settlements are legal. Would that make any difference to you? Of course not. So the whole question is irrelevant. As I said, the whole thing is ultimately political. Even MERETZ says they are in favor of keeping at least some of the settlement blocs. If they are illegal, how could they be in favor of keeping illegal settlements, even if the Palestinians should agree? Thus, even the political Left realizes the question is political.

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  9. Ben Israel, I’d say your opinion on the issue is political, but as to the status of settlements & land use, that’s a legal issue. Saying that legality is just unmediated opinion is lazy. If I rob someone in the street, or drive over the speed limit, no amount of subjectivity will get me out of it. It’s not a magistrate or judge’s mere view that I broke the law: I did. Have your opinion of the law, argue for it, but don’t confuse that with the law itself.

    Given, politics informs the creation of law and sometimes distorts it’s implementation, but that categorically doesn’t mean law folds into abject relativity.

    Oh, God, I’ve just realised I’ve got drawn into one of those perennial Mid-East topics that not only go nowhere, but have little to do with the article – which was actually quite good Roi. Ta.

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  11. Carl-
    I am aware of what you are saying. I think the matter comes up if private land were taken illegally to build, then there would be a problem. However, the settlements are built on Jewish-owned land or state land. Israel spent much effort defining what land qualified for this category. I am also aware that there are private Arab individuals who claim that state land used for settlements was actually their own private land. This is a matter for the courts to determine.

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  13. Aw I hate to say this, but I’m agreeing with you Ben. As far as the legality goes, that’s for the courts to decide and the lawyers to contest: both nationally and internationally. We can then all make our opinions on the law itself as regards the sense and ethics of it.

    On the latter I suspect we’re poles away Ben, but rather than waste our fingertips in a vain attempt to breach each others’ defences, let’s have a collective gasp at this rare agreement. Hurrah!

    Hey, I’m on a roll. I might even chance the car-crash which is the Ha’aretz comment system … .. . No, no I’m not actually drunk, am I. Maybe this evening then.

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  15. “the settlements are built on Jewish-owned land or state land.”..really? That’s new to me. Not even Israel was created on more than 6/7 percent of Jewish-owned land and so that’s a great announcement to the world. It is very funny to me how is it possible to live in such a self-created perception. All the States of the world recognized Israel only inside the Green Line. All the rest are only autistic considerations. Settlements are just a crime against millions of human being and only a person that never spent 1 day among the Palestinians in the OPT can write that the settlements are legal. Ben Israel I hope that next life you will be born in Ni’ilin: let’s see then if you keep this solipsistic approach.

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  17. Roi, very good article.
    One question:
    “The truth is that the government, for all its protestations, supports the outposts. The regional councils, as well as other organizations and public bodies financed by the government, divert funds to sustain the outposts, providing fuel for their electricity generators and trailers to live in.”
    Is there documentation supporting this statement?
    Thank you

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  19. Ben – according to information provided by Israel’s own authorities, 40% of the settlement’s areas is on private Palestinian land:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/21/AR2006112100482.html

    Raph-

    Here is just one link (in Hebrew), showing 4 million NIS (over a million dollars) invested in just two illegal outposts on private Palestinian land, in 2003 alone, by Israel’s Housing Ministry:

    http://www.mevaker.gov.il/serve/showHtml.asp?bookid=404&id=157&contentid=7510&parentcid=7504&frompage=398

    That, of course, is just the tip of the iceberg. Take 4 million NIS in one year, for just two outposts, and multiply it by as much as 100 outposts, over a decade, and you get what probably amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars of financing by the Israeli state.

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  21. [...] (Israeli term for settlements lacking official recognition) built on private Palestinian land (but not confiscated lands) by the end of 2011. Nobody would be blamed for disbelieving the claim. The different attitude of [...]



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