Comments on: Netanyahu lays blame for Bulgaria attack ahead of evidence http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Fri, 24 May 2013 21:08:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Scott Rickard http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69473 Scott Rickard Mon, 23 Jul 2012 06:52:51 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69473 <em>Comment deleted and user banned</em> Comment deleted and user banned

]]> By: dindan http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69385 dindan Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:44:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69385 It cant be ruled out, that the blue-hat-attacker didnt really plan to kill himself. why should he have sat in the bus, after he put the backpack into the compartment? the bomb can have had either a remote or time trigger, if not, then it was a suicide attack... reports say, that the bomb is checked atm... faik, it was 3kg TNT extract, the bomb may have been more heavy - the backpack was very bulky and he had another bag around the hip... It cant be ruled out, that the blue-hat-attacker didnt really plan to kill himself. why should he have sat in the bus, after he put the backpack into the compartment? the bomb can have had either a remote or time trigger, if not, then it was a suicide attack… reports say, that the bomb is checked atm… faik, it was 3kg TNT extract, the bomb may have been more heavy – the backpack was very bulky and he had another bag around the hip…

]]> By: Jennifer http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69363 Jennifer Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:18:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69363 Rushing to blame your favourite enemy for any outrage is a very obvious temptation for politicians, and one that they seem unable to resist even though there are some well known examples of unexpected perpetrators.Do the dates 19th April 1995, 11th March 2004 & 22nd July 2011 ring any bells? The original perpetrators for the events of these days were proclaimed to be Islamic terrorists, ETA & Islamic terrorists. Actual perpetrators were Tim McVeigh, Moroccan terroeists & Anders Breivik. Perhaps Bibi should keep in mind that the Madrid train bombings, which the then Spanish government was so keen to blame on ETA, were ultimatly responsible for the electoral defeat of that government. Rushing to blame your favourite enemy for any outrage is a very obvious temptation for politicians, and one that they seem unable to resist even though there are some well known examples of unexpected perpetrators.Do the dates 19th April 1995, 11th March 2004 & 22nd July 2011 ring any bells? The original perpetrators for the events of these days were proclaimed to be Islamic terrorists, ETA & Islamic terrorists. Actual perpetrators were Tim McVeigh, Moroccan terroeists & Anders Breivik.
Perhaps Bibi should keep in mind that the Madrid train bombings, which the then Spanish government was so keen to blame on ETA, were ultimatly responsible for the electoral defeat of that government.

]]> By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69355 Greg Pollock Sun, 22 Jul 2012 04:31:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69355 Well, I'm out of my conspriacy range here. Which doesn't mean there are not conspriacies. I'm just out of my depth. I would say, though, that . 1) Neither Hezbollah nor Iran are monolithic entities at the moment. There have been, I guess, about 3 or 4 apparent anti Israel terrorist attempts in the recent past; this last leading to results. But the others seemed rather ill formed. I think it possible that some subgroup of the above two "entities" may have gone rouge, in that approval at whatever counts as highest level was not given. Both Hezbollah and Iran are facing the active loss of a major ally in a most unfriendly world--Syria. I can see some of either entity trying to escalte matters to enhance their wing's standing in their respective organization. So I can well believe the Iran foregin ministry condemning this attack, perhaps even afraid someone in the Guards helped actualize it. As I said elsewhere here, this could be a hysterical act even if you find real evidence of Hezbollah or Iran. What should a State rationally do then? . 2)The truth often doesn't mean very much in long term sporadic conflict. Yossi was lightning quick to see the Siani attack wasn't likely some umberla committee in Gaza (I believe even Israeli intelligence people said, anonymously, that it was quite unlikely that group would be waiting to be blown up in a single room, as they indeed were, if they had ordered the attack, knowing as they must have Israel's response pattern). Bibi announced it was said umbrela group quite quick and then said the perpatrators "were no longer among the living." There is a social economy of terror and response (you pick whose what) that just wants institutional legitimacy. Even if you kill the wrong guys, you've shown you can, and everybody is afraid or impressed. This institutional pressure tempts one to place blanket labels over what might otherwise be seen as splinter or rouge events. Indeed, it can be useful, considering the escalation consequences, to decide an event is somewhat rouge to at least limit what may be an inevitable institutional response. . My bet is that the Syrian crisis, which has been fuming and now is flaming during all these recent terrorist attempts, has lead to underlings producing a new fact (the attack) in an attempt to force the chain of command, such as it may be, to move towards the "rouge"'s thinking. And yes, I suspect that after the assassinations in Iran, setting up potential retaliation avenues was authorized; does not Israel do this all the time? But these are real people who think in terms of hate and fear; I can see one latent plan going rouge. To say again: how do you rationally deal with such a scenario? I doubt Bibi knows; maybe Americans do. Now, I've shown myself a conspiracy freak. I need help. . 3) Quoting Abraham Linclon can be tricky. He violated the Constitution several times while President (the Congress always approved his actions after the fact, but they were mostly Radical Republcians by then). Jefferson, whose mind I truly admire, abandoned several early core principles when President: while he thought Habeus Corpus should never be suspended, he asked Congress to do so against Burr (they said no); while he praised the life of Native Americans, he ordered that those Natives unwilling to convert to farming should be pushed byeond the Mississippi (I have no idea how effective that order was in the early 1800's). In both the case of Linclon and Jefferson, their earlier selves became something different once President. I think the same can be said of Obamma to some extent. Power controls us more than we it. . Fortitude to you Yossi Gurvitz, once again on the front line. May you never have power. I think you get my meaning. Well, I’m out of my conspriacy range here. Which doesn’t mean there are not conspriacies. I’m just out of my depth. I would say, though, that
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1) Neither Hezbollah nor Iran are monolithic entities at the moment. There have been, I guess, about 3 or 4 apparent anti Israel terrorist attempts in the recent past; this last leading to results. But the others seemed rather ill formed. I think it possible that some subgroup of the above two “entities” may have gone rouge, in that approval at whatever counts as highest level was not given. Both Hezbollah and Iran are facing the active loss of a major ally in a most unfriendly world–Syria. I can see some of either entity trying to escalte matters to enhance their wing’s standing in their respective organization. So I can well believe the Iran foregin ministry condemning this attack, perhaps even afraid someone in the Guards helped actualize it. As I said elsewhere here, this could be a hysterical act even if you find real evidence of Hezbollah or Iran. What should a State rationally do then?
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2)The truth often doesn’t mean very much in long term sporadic conflict. Yossi was lightning quick to see the Siani attack wasn’t likely some umberla committee in Gaza (I believe even Israeli intelligence people said, anonymously, that it was quite unlikely that group would be waiting to be blown up in a single room, as they indeed were, if they had ordered the attack, knowing as they must have Israel’s response pattern). Bibi announced it was said umbrela group quite quick and then said the perpatrators “were no longer among the living.” There is a social economy of terror and response (you pick whose what) that just wants institutional legitimacy. Even if you kill the wrong guys, you’ve shown you can, and everybody is afraid or impressed. This institutional pressure tempts one to place blanket labels over what might otherwise be seen as splinter or rouge events. Indeed, it can be useful, considering the escalation consequences, to decide an event is somewhat rouge to at least limit what may be an inevitable institutional response.
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My bet is that the Syrian crisis, which has been fuming and now is flaming during all these recent terrorist attempts, has lead to underlings producing a new fact (the attack) in an attempt to force the chain of command, such as it may be, to move towards the “rouge”‘s thinking. And yes, I suspect that after the assassinations in Iran, setting up potential retaliation avenues was authorized; does not Israel do this all the time? But these are real people who think in terms of hate and fear; I can see one latent plan going rouge. To say again: how do you rationally deal with such a scenario? I doubt Bibi knows; maybe Americans do. Now, I’ve shown myself a conspiracy freak. I need help.
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3) Quoting Abraham Linclon can be tricky. He violated the Constitution several times while President (the Congress always approved his actions after the fact, but they were mostly Radical Republcians by then). Jefferson, whose mind I truly admire, abandoned several early core principles when President: while he thought Habeus Corpus should never be suspended, he asked Congress to do so against Burr (they said no); while he praised the life of Native Americans, he ordered that those Natives unwilling to convert to farming should be pushed byeond the Mississippi (I have no idea how effective that order was in the early 1800′s). In both the case of Linclon and Jefferson, their earlier selves became something different once President. I think the same can be said of Obamma to some extent. Power controls us more than we it.
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Fortitude to you Yossi Gurvitz, once again on the front line. May you never have power. I think you get my meaning.

]]> By: klang http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69354 klang Sun, 22 Jul 2012 04:10:06 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69354 Perhaps someone on the 972 staph or readership will claim responsibility for the Bulgaria bombing. Perhaps someone on the 972 staph or readership will claim responsibility for the Bulgaria bombing.

]]> By: ginger http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69347 ginger Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:05:42 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69347 Bibi is appearing on the US Sunday talk shows tomorrow (Fox and CBS) to no doubt hype his phony clairvoyance. You know the script ... Iran, Terror, must bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Rinse and Repeat the hoax on America . Does everybody know the FBI found out that Netanyahu was directly involved in smuggling 800 Krytron nuclear bomb triggers out of the US and into Israel? . For a 17 min heads up, here's a great interview and synopsis: “Netanyahu Worked Inside Nuclear Smuggling Ring;” Grant Smith interviewed by Scott Horton@ http://scotthortonshow.com/2012/07/13/grant-f-smith/ . Tikun Olam is running the story as well Bibi is appearing on the US Sunday talk shows tomorrow (Fox and CBS) to no doubt hype his phony clairvoyance. You know the script … Iran, Terror, must bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Rinse and Repeat the hoax on America
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Does everybody know the FBI found out that Netanyahu was directly involved in smuggling 800 Krytron nuclear bomb triggers out of the US and into Israel?
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For a 17 min heads up, here’s a great interview and synopsis:
“Netanyahu Worked Inside Nuclear Smuggling Ring;”
Grant Smith interviewed by Scott Horton@
http://scotthortonshow.com/2012/07/13/grant-f-smith/
.
Tikun Olam is running the story as well

]]> By: Bradfordian http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69342 Bradfordian Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:37:39 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69342 @Canadian . Then why the fake passport? I think that it is much more likely that it was him, and that it was Iran, Hezbollah or a Jihadist group that planned it. . The fact that this man isn't acting oddly probably means that he knew what he was doing. If he'd left his luggage behind or tried to get it into the cabin of the bus, he would have surely appeared suspicious. If your intention is to kill as many people as possible, getting amongst them without raising suspicions is paramount. . I do think that Netanyahu & co are behaving like opportunistic politicians with an agenda to sell. Assigning blame while the investigation has barely begun is at best reckless. Of course, it is possible that they knew about the attack in advance and either allowed it to happen or were powerless to stop it in time, in which case swiftly attributing blame is to be expected. @Canadian
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Then why the fake passport? I think that it is much more likely that it was him, and that it was Iran, Hezbollah or a Jihadist group that planned it.
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The fact that this man isn’t acting oddly probably means that he knew what he was doing. If he’d left his luggage behind or tried to get it into the cabin of the bus, he would have surely appeared suspicious. If your intention is to kill as many people as possible, getting amongst them without raising suspicions is paramount.
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I do think that Netanyahu & co are behaving like opportunistic politicians with an agenda to sell. Assigning blame while the investigation has barely begun is at best reckless. Of course, it is possible that they knew about the attack in advance and either allowed it to happen or were powerless to stop it in time, in which case swiftly attributing blame is to be expected.

]]> By: aristeides http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69335 aristeides Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:34:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69335 Max - You're missing the point. I'm not blaming Israel for this one. As I said, I have no evidence that suggests they did it. . The point is an extension of what Gurvitz it saying: that Israel's credibility in these matters is low, and the behavior of its politicians in casting instant blame is part of the reason. It's a conclusion it would be easy to believe, IF there were evidence. Max – You’re missing the point. I’m not blaming Israel for this one. As I said, I have no evidence that suggests they did it.

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The point is an extension of what Gurvitz it saying: that Israel’s credibility in these matters is low, and the behavior of its politicians in casting instant blame is part of the reason. It’s a conclusion it would be easy to believe, IF there were evidence.

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69331 max Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:30:16 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69331 @aristeides, Somehow, I'm of the opinion that blaming HA for what may not be their deed is a lesser travesty of truth than blaming a government for murdering its own people, based on what YG says... . It's cheap - in more than one meaning - to come up with conspiracy theories. Will we see an acknowledgement when this theory is proven wrong? Of course not, conspiracy is immune to truth. @aristeides, Somehow, I’m of the opinion that blaming HA for what may not be their deed is a lesser travesty of truth than blaming a government for murdering its own people, based on what YG says…
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It’s cheap – in more than one meaning – to come up with conspiracy theories. Will we see an acknowledgement when this theory is proven wrong? Of course not, conspiracy is immune to truth.

]]> By: Canadian http://972mag.com/netanyahu-quick-to-lay-blame-for-bulgaria-attack-ahead-of-evidence/51555/comment-page-1/#comment-69326 Canadian Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:17:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51555#comment-69326 I would also like to add that there is something very fishy in the structure of the attack: The terrorist looks just like all other Israeli tourists; he puts his baggages containing the bomb in the luggage compartment just like everyone else, and then ??boards?? the bus just like everyone else? And the bomb only weighs 3kg. Could this be a case of someone planting a bomb in the suitcase of the tourist, or maybe in one item (such as a speaker) of his luggage... Just like many international drug smugglers have done many times to unsuspecting tourists. I would also like to add that there is something very fishy in the structure of the attack:

The terrorist looks just like all other Israeli tourists; he puts his baggages containing the bomb in the luggage compartment just like everyone else, and then ??boards?? the bus just like everyone else? And the bomb only weighs 3kg.

Could this be a case of someone planting a bomb in the suitcase of the tourist, or maybe in one item (such as a speaker) of his luggage… Just like many international drug smugglers have done many times to unsuspecting tourists.

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