Comments on: Naomi Chazan: An undemocratic Israel will not last a minute http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Sun, 19 May 2013 11:36:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-45092 Kibbutznik Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:27:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-45092 " By “us post-Zionists” I’m sure you weren’t referring to me… " --- God forbid , I was referring to us : http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1282429124 ” By “us post-Zionists” I’m sure you weren’t referring to me… ”
—
God forbid , I was referring to us :
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1282429124

]]> By: Passerby http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44950 Passerby Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:15:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44950 By "us post-Zionists" I'm sure you weren't referring to me... ------- What was it I found extreme with Aloni? What didn't I? She was a firebrand and she had a big mouth and when she attacked ideas or people whom she opposed, I found that her criticisms usually went too far. --------- If you're going to talk about Meretz, I think two good contrasts for her are Beilin and Chazan. If you go through Beilin's various peace enterprises over the years, he was usually careful not to be overly (and overtly) hostile to those he opposed. Same with Chazan. Sure, they both spoke out, but somehow they managed to keep the idea of Israel being a family within their presentations. Aloni did not. With her it was "us and them." -------- On a basic level, I have a serious problem with that. --------- I liked Rabin as well. It is a shame on so many levels that he was murdered. As time passes, I think this has become clearer than ever. ---------- I think Peres was more clever and ultimately always had a broad and long-term vision for Israel. Rabin was the doer and Peres was the thinker. One thing they proved, though, is that politics in Israel were and are always brutally hard. By “us post-Zionists” I’m sure you weren’t referring to me…

——-

What was it I found extreme with Aloni? What didn’t I? She was a firebrand and she had a big mouth and when she attacked ideas or people whom she opposed, I found that her criticisms usually went too far.
———
If you’re going to talk about Meretz, I think two good contrasts for her are Beilin and Chazan. If you go through Beilin’s various peace enterprises over the years, he was usually careful not to be overly (and overtly) hostile to those he opposed. Same with Chazan. Sure, they both spoke out, but somehow they managed to keep the idea of Israel being a family within their presentations. Aloni did not. With her it was “us and them.”
——–
On a basic level, I have a serious problem with that.
———

I liked Rabin as well. It is a shame on so many levels that he was murdered. As time passes, I think this has become clearer than ever.
———-
I think Peres was more clever and ultimately always had a broad and long-term vision for Israel. Rabin was the doer and Peres was the thinker. One thing they proved, though, is that politics in Israel were and are always brutally hard.

]]> By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44948 Kibbutznik Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:35:49 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44948 " If I have to choose, I’d say my favorite was Lova Eliav. I also admire Amnon Rubinstein. And now that I think about it, I actually like Shimon Peres. Shoot me " . Interesting choice. Amnon Rubinstein does not like us post-zionists much but there again who does ;) I wouldnt shoot you for choosing those three but I was always Rabin's man so Shimon Peres leaves me cold . . What was it you found too extreme with Shulamit's politics ? ” If I have to choose, I’d say my favorite was Lova Eliav. I also admire Amnon Rubinstein. And now that I think about it, I actually like Shimon Peres. Shoot me ”
.
Interesting choice.
Amnon Rubinstein does not like us post-zionists much but there again who does ;)
I wouldnt shoot you for choosing those three but I was always Rabin’s man so Shimon Peres leaves me cold .
.
What was it you found too extreme with Shulamit’s politics ?

]]> By: Passerby http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44885 Passerby Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:46:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44885 I'm afraid I'm not a fan of any Israeli politicians. Politicians, by their nature, are typically egotistical and have sharp elbows. -------- If I have to choose, I'd say my favorite was Lova Eliav. I also admire Amnon Rubinstein. And now that I think about it, I actually like Shimon Peres. Shoot me. -------- Shulamit Aloni? Too extreme. I’m afraid I’m not a fan of any Israeli politicians. Politicians, by their nature, are typically egotistical and have sharp elbows.
——–
If I have to choose, I’d say my favorite was Lova Eliav. I also admire Amnon Rubinstein. And now that I think about it, I actually like Shimon Peres. Shoot me.
——–
Shulamit Aloni? Too extreme.

]]> By: Reiner Bernstein http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44869 Reiner Bernstein Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:37:01 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44869 Thank you very much, my dear friend Naomi Chazan, for your courageous deliberations of about what Israel is facing today: a process of de-democratization that is dangerously undermining the essence of its society. Best, Reiner Thank you very much, my dear friend Naomi Chazan, for your courageous deliberations of about what Israel is facing today: a process of de-democratization that is dangerously undermining the essence of its society.

Best, Reiner

]]> By: Kibbutznik http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44861 Kibbutznik Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:07:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44861 " Kibbutznik, we are more alike than you think " . Are we ? Because my favorite politician was Shulamit Aloni , to which party did she belong ? Meretz . Who is/was your favorite politician Passerby ? ” Kibbutznik, we are more alike than you think ”
.
Are we ?
Because my favorite politician was Shulamit Aloni , to which party did she belong ?
Meretz .
Who is/was your favorite politician Passerby ?

]]> By: Passerby http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44752 Passerby Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:18:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44752 Kibbutznik, we are more alike than you think. It pains me greatly to write what I wrote. Unfortunately these days it's more accurate than not. To which party does Naomi Chazan belong? Meretz. Kibbutznik, we are more alike than you think. It pains me greatly to write what I wrote. Unfortunately these days it’s more accurate than not. To which party does Naomi Chazan belong? Meretz.

]]> By: Manfred http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44751 Manfred Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:15:49 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44751 Prior to WWII most European jews in Central and Eastern Europe were ethnic Germans. That makes them close. That Israel culturally belongs to the Middle East is nonsense. In fact the Holy Land is at the core of Europe. Why doesn't Israel turn the Gaza strip into an Egyptian protectorate and join the EU? I don't get it. Germans learned after 1945 that territorial control doesn't matter. Prior to WWII most European jews in Central and Eastern Europe were ethnic Germans. That makes them close. That Israel culturally belongs to the Middle East is nonsense. In fact the Holy Land is at the core of Europe.

Why doesn’t Israel turn the Gaza strip into an Egyptian protectorate and join the EU? I don’t get it. Germans learned after 1945 that territorial control doesn’t matter.

]]> By: Robert Soran - Schwarz http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44746 Robert Soran - Schwarz Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:35:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44746 Germany's main problem in always being what you call a true friend that always criticizes what deserves to be criticized is not the past, but the present: the over-active, loud and aggressive, often blackmailing Central Council of Jews in Germany and its affiliated organizations, institutions and affiliates. They all are - surprise, surprise - totally Zionist and increasingly orthodox due to enormous Russian Jews influx to Germany (most communities count today more than 80% of their members as being recent immigrants from former USSR. Each time Germany is critical of something happening in Israel, the Central Council comes up with accusations of anti-Semitism and plays loudly the Auschwitz/Holocaust card. It is a real shame ... Germany’s main problem in always being what you call a true friend that always criticizes what deserves to be criticized is not the past, but the present: the over-active, loud and aggressive, often blackmailing Central Council of Jews in Germany and its affiliated organizations, institutions and affiliates.
They all are – surprise, surprise – totally Zionist and increasingly orthodox due to enormous Russian Jews influx to Germany (most communities count today more than 80% of their members as being recent immigrants from former USSR. Each time Germany is critical of something happening in Israel, the Central Council comes up with accusations of anti-Semitism and plays loudly the Auschwitz/Holocaust card. It is a real shame …

]]> By: Robert Soran - Schwarz http://972mag.com/naomi-chazan-an-undemocratic-israel-will-not-last-a-minute/35925/comment-page-1/#comment-44743 Robert Soran - Schwarz Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:19:39 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=35925#comment-44743 "Estranged" friends isn't the right word for "Fremde" Freunde. Estranged means rather allienated, drifting apart, GETTING strange. This is not what the conference name intended to mean. Well, I admit that I'm also looking for a better translation ... Alien? Unfamiliar? Odd? Maybe Foreign Friends? I don't know either :--) “Estranged” friends isn’t the right word for “Fremde” Freunde. Estranged means rather allienated, drifting apart, GETTING strange.
This is not what the conference name intended to mean. Well, I admit that I’m also looking for a better translation …
Alien? Unfamiliar? Odd? Maybe Foreign Friends? I don’t know either :–)

]]>