Comments on: No happy ending: Film documents the struggle in Sheikh Jarrah http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Thu, 23 May 2013 09:32:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69725 Lisa Goldman Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:50:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69725 K9 - Your claim that Palestinian residents of E. Jerusalem have the right to purchase property in Israel proper is incorrect. But even if it were correct, evicting Palestinians from their homes so that Jews can move in is truly racist. The protests are not against the presence of Jews, but rather the eviction of Palestinians specifically to make way for Jews. <br></br>I am sure you would not be in favour of East Jerusalem Palestinians suing and evicting Jews who live in the homes they owned in West Jerusalem prior to 1948 - not that any Israeli court would allow such a case to be heard, since Israeli law does not recognize the right of Palestinians to claim or be compensated for their property in Israel. K9 – Your claim that Palestinian residents of E. Jerusalem have the right to purchase property in Israel proper is incorrect. But even if it were correct, evicting Palestinians from their homes so that Jews can move in is truly racist. The protests are not against the presence of Jews, but rather the eviction of Palestinians specifically to make way for Jews.
I am sure you would not be in favour of East Jerusalem Palestinians suing and evicting Jews who live in the homes they owned in West Jerusalem prior to 1948 – not that any Israeli court would allow such a case to be heard, since Israeli law does not recognize the right of Palestinians to claim or be compensated for their property in Israel.

]]> By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69696 Kolumn9 Wed, 25 Jul 2012 07:32:03 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69696 @Lisa, Since 2008 Israeli residents (blue id cards) have the same right to lease land from the ILA and buy apartments as Israeli citizens. So, you are, lets charitably say, out of date in your claims that East Jerusalem Arabs can not buy in West Jerusalem. So, there goes the entire basis of your claim and I believe that of pretty much everyone else who thinks that Jews should not be allowed to live in some Arab-only neighborhoods... Now, can we agree that having protests to prevent Jews from moving into certain neighborhoods is racist? @Lisa, Since 2008 Israeli residents (blue id cards) have the same right to lease land from the ILA and buy apartments as Israeli citizens. So, you are, lets charitably say, out of date in your claims that East Jerusalem Arabs can not buy in West Jerusalem. So, there goes the entire basis of your claim and I believe that of pretty much everyone else who thinks that Jews should not be allowed to live in some Arab-only neighborhoods… Now, can we agree that having protests to prevent Jews from moving into certain neighborhoods is racist?

]]> By: Richard Witty http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69646 Richard Witty Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:04:35 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69646 Trees, permanently trees. There is no consent on the principles of law to be applied. All of the parties engage in shifting sands to their temporary advantage. What is needed is clear articulation, or functionally universal ratification of principles to be applied color-blind in a case by case basis. Law. I haven't seen the film. I want to, am waiting to. Revolutionary change is not forthcoming, and in conditions where there are genuinely reasonable countervailing claims, any revolutionary approach would be only a pendulum swing, replacing one injustice for a prior. The ONLY reconciliation is by the process of adjudication per consented legal principles, consented for the principles themselves, NOT for the outcomes. Anyone up for that effort? Anyone willing to forego outcomes in favor of fair and consentable principles? Trees, permanently trees.

There is no consent on the principles of law to be applied. All of the parties engage in shifting sands to their temporary advantage.

What is needed is clear articulation, or functionally universal ratification of principles to be applied color-blind in a case by case basis. Law.

I haven’t seen the film. I want to, am waiting to.

Revolutionary change is not forthcoming, and in conditions where there are genuinely reasonable countervailing claims, any revolutionary approach would be only a pendulum swing, replacing one injustice for a prior.

The ONLY reconciliation is by the process of adjudication per consented legal principles, consented for the principles themselves, NOT for the outcomes.

Anyone up for that effort? Anyone willing to forego outcomes in favor of fair and consentable principles?

]]> By: Berl http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69634 Berl Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:35:30 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69634 XYZ, this is just an excuse in order to keep the status quo, continuing the "judaizing process" in East Jerusalem. .. For your knowledge, it is just propaganda to attribute that ban to Muslim or "Arab intolerance". Actually that refusal of access, which lasted twenty years, didn’t have any Muslim motivation, as Jews had been given free access to Jerusalem in the previous twelve centuries of Muslim rule of the city, while the same access was forbidden under Christian domination (Byzantines and Crusades as well). The issue of the Wailing Wall fell among the consequences of 48′s War. During it Israeli/Jewish forces occupied 5 mixed cities, 9 fully Arab cities and 500 enterely Arab villages. Afterward Israel razed to the ground 400 of these 500 villages and distributed that land. On the other hand, the expulsions have deprived of their home 750,000 Pals, Christians and Muslims. .. And, most important, while between 1948 and 1967 Jews didn’t have access to the Wailing Wall, for those Palestinians refugees and their descendants there was and still remains the denial of access to their lands and their homes in Israel XYZ,
this is just an excuse in order to keep the status quo, continuing the “judaizing process” in East Jerusalem.
..
For your knowledge, it is just propaganda to attribute that ban to Muslim or “Arab intolerance”.
Actually that refusal of access, which lasted twenty years, didn’t have any Muslim motivation, as Jews had been given free access to Jerusalem in the previous twelve centuries of Muslim rule of the city, while the same access was forbidden under Christian domination (Byzantines and Crusades as well).
The issue of the Wailing Wall fell among the consequences of 48′s War. During it Israeli/Jewish forces occupied 5 mixed cities, 9 fully Arab cities and 500 enterely Arab villages. Afterward Israel razed to the ground 400 of these 500 villages and distributed that land. On the other hand, the expulsions have deprived of their home 750,000 Pals, Christians and Muslims.
..
And, most important, while between 1948 and 1967 Jews didn’t have access to the Wailing Wall, for those Palestinians refugees and their descendants there was and still remains the denial of access to their lands and their homes in Israel

]]> By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69630 Lisa Goldman Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:43:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69630 XYZ - We are not talking about dividing Jerusalem. We are talking about kicking Palestinian families out of their homes so that Jews can move in. XYZ – We are not talking about dividing Jerusalem. We are talking about kicking Palestinian families out of their homes so that Jews can move in.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69629 XYZ Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:36:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69629 Berl- I am well aware that there was a significant Arab population in western Jerusalem before 1948. The point is that there is no basis for saying that east Jerusalem supposedly belongs to the Palestinians because it was populated by only Arabs before 1948, just like saying that west Jerusalem should belong to Israel because it was only Jewish before 1948. Neither statement is correct. So now you say to "share" it. What you mean is to divide it....along the cease-fire line of 1948. The problem is that the cease-fire line was based on agreement by Jordan that Israelis would have access to the Jewish holy places. Jordan never honored this agreement. I have no faith whatsoever that a Palestinian regime would honor any similar clause in a theoretical peace agreement with Israel. Maybe they wouldn't hermetically seal off east Jerusalem from the west at first, but Jews who enter the Palestinian areas would be harrassed and the seam line would become a shooting gallery, just as was the case when Israel pulled out of the Bethlehem-Beit Jallah area and the Gilo neighborhood came under sustained fire until Israel went in and put a stop to it. The Arabs had the chance to prove they could share Jerusalem with Israel from 1948-1967. They blew it and few Israelis are willing to give it another try. WIth the rise of hard-line political Islam, the expulsion of Jews from their holiest places (even "voluntarily") would be interpreted as a major defeat for the Jews and it would greatly inflame Islamic radicals and make war more more likely. As I said, few Israelis are willing to take the chance. Jerusalem will not be redivided no matter what 972 may think. Berl-
I am well aware that there was a significant Arab population in western Jerusalem before 1948. The point is that there is no basis for saying that east Jerusalem supposedly belongs to the Palestinians because it was populated by only Arabs before 1948, just like saying that west Jerusalem should belong to Israel because it was only Jewish before 1948. Neither statement is correct. So now you say to “share” it. What you mean is to divide it….along the cease-fire line of 1948. The problem is that the cease-fire line was based on agreement by Jordan that Israelis would have access to the Jewish holy places. Jordan never honored this agreement. I have no faith whatsoever that a Palestinian regime would honor any similar clause in a theoretical peace agreement with Israel. Maybe they wouldn’t hermetically seal off east Jerusalem from the west at first, but Jews who enter the Palestinian areas would be harrassed and the seam line would become a shooting gallery, just as was the case when Israel pulled out of the Bethlehem-Beit Jallah area and the Gilo neighborhood came under sustained fire until Israel went in and put a stop to it.
The Arabs had the chance to prove they could share Jerusalem with Israel from 1948-1967. They blew it and few Israelis are willing to give it another try.
WIth the rise of hard-line political Islam, the expulsion of Jews from their holiest places (even “voluntarily”) would be interpreted as a major defeat for the Jews and it would greatly inflame Islamic radicals and make war more more likely. As I said, few Israelis are willing to take the chance.
Jerusalem will not be redivided no matter what 972 may think.

]]> By: berl http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69622 berl Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:48:43 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69622 Max, an Israeli court took a decision about issues of Israeli interests. Nothing strange for you right? Image the opposite: a Palestinian court that take a decision about Palestinian affairs: you would start to laugh. Max,
an Israeli court took a decision about issues of Israeli interests. Nothing strange for you right? Image the opposite: a Palestinian court that take a decision about Palestinian affairs: you would start to laugh.

]]> By: berl http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69621 berl Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:45:25 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69621 XYZ, West Jerusalem was never only Jewish (actually most of the Palestinains were evicted from West Jeruslamem). That's the reason why the solution is to share it. otherwise, using your approach, a palestinian could ask you the following: "West Jerusalem was never ever only Jewish. Why should it be handed over to them?" you logic is: what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine. XYZ,
West Jerusalem was never only Jewish (actually most of the Palestinains were evicted from West Jeruslamem). That’s the reason why the solution is to share it. otherwise, using your approach, a palestinian could ask you the following: “West Jerusalem was never ever only Jewish. Why should it be handed over to them?”
you logic is: what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine.

]]> By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69619 Lisa Goldman Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:14:30 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69619 Max - If a law is unjust, then it must be changed. That is the purpose of political activism. Max – If a law is unjust, then it must be changed. That is the purpose of political activism.

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/my-neighborhood-a-documentary-about-non-violent-protest-in-east-jerusalem/51593/comment-page-1/#comment-69618 XYZ Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:11:55 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=51593#comment-69618 Berl- East Jerusalem was never ever only Arab. Why should it be handed over to them? Berl-
East Jerusalem was never ever only Arab. Why should it be handed over to them?

]]>