The Jewish diaspora didn’t always march lockstep behind Israel. My great-grandmother–who escaped pogroms and lost family in the Holocaust–was an anti-Zionist.
Rampant anti-Semitism drove my great-grandmother from Eastern Europe. There’d been pogroms; there were restrictions on the type of work Jews could do. My family made their way to New York City with little more than the clothes on their backs; the relatives they’d left behind disappeared during the Holocaust, never to be heard from again.
So when the United Nations voted in favor of the partition of Palestine in 1947, my great-grandmother’s son, my grandfather, rejoiced. He ran into the street and danced. He sang HaTikva. And when fighting broke out in Palestine, he decided that he would make the trip east and join the Haganah, which later became the Israeli army. Sure, he was only 16, but he would lie about his age and enlist.
It was my great-grandmother—an Orthodox Jew who’d fled anti-Semitism, who’d lost family and friends in the Holocaust—who stopped him.
“No way are you going to fight the Arabs,” she said. She was an anti-Zionist and, as such, there was a lot packed into those words.
Even though I never met her, I always find myself thinking about my great-grandmother a lot this time of year. This is the period in Israel when we enter the cycle of nationalist holidays that starts with Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Day). Never mind that Israel treats Holocaust survivors so poorly that they have protested the issue. Never mind that many Holocaust survivors are still struggling to survive in Israel and that, according to Ynet, that state is cutting their benefits by twenty percent. Never mind that Israel cynically uses the Holocaust as a political tool to defend indefensible policies of occupation and expansion and to beat the war drums against Iran.
After Yom HaShoah, the flag-waving continues with Yom HaZikaron (Remembrance Day) and culminates with Yom HaAtzmaut (Independence Day). Stacked one on top of the other, the three holidays maximize feelings of victimhood, self-righteousness, and unity. For many Israelis, that the sad Yom HaZikaron rolls straight into the joyful Yom HaAtzmaut gives a feeling of triumph, of exhilaration. It’s intoxicating. And it’s dangerous.
Maybe that’s why my great-grandmother didn’t want her son to fight in a war that wasn’t her own. I think she understood that Israel wasn’t the solution to the Jewish people’s problems. Today, I’m watching the bits of democracy that exist here tremble under the weight of the occupation. I watch the conversation about Israel grow increasingly divisive in the Diaspora. I consider the vibrant Jewish cultures and languages that were virtually wiped out for the sake of forging an Israeli identity. I see Jews turn away from Judaism because of Israel’s ill-doings. I wonder if my great-grandmother saw all this coming, if she knew the trouble that lay ahead.
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Joachim Martillo
For oriental Jews anti-Arabism and proving non-Arab status has been a ticket to greater acceptance by dominant ethnic Ashkenazim.
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You might be interested in the following article that Guarnieri tweeted if I am not mistaken.
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http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/lebanese-jews-new-york-longing-home
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It makes no sense to refer to Jews in 1000 BC, but it is good that modern Lebanese Jews acknowledge their affinity with Arab culture. Unfortunately, decent Jews like decent human beings in general would condemn the State of Israel unequivocally and demand its dismantlement.
Mitchell Cohen
Like another poster here said, I do give JM credit for one thing. He uses his real name. One just need to visit his facebook profile and (even without being his “friend” on facebook) can see the kind of anti-semitic slime he is:
https://www.facebook.com/joachim.martillo
For those who want to keep “debating” with him, knock yourselves out. I won’t join this game.
AYLA
@Annie–when I think of ethnic cleansing–and I don’t think I’m alone here–I think of cases in history such as the civil war in Bosnia where one group was trying to entirely remove another group from the land, or so it seemed. I agree with you when you talk specifically about what Israel is doing. But when you say ethnic cleansing, I think: not really. They’re not really trying to entirely remove Palestinians from all of the land (though some extremists want this). The problem with a reaction like mine is that the impulse is to defend, or to say: it’s not so bad. When in fact, it’s really bad! And that’s why I think the labeling is counter-productive. I feel that way across the board (zionism, anti-zionism, even apartheid though there are certainly apartheid aspects, etc.). It’s not denial of what’s happening. It’s what I’ve said already. So in answer to your question: I don’t think it’s ethnic cleansing, and I find that kind of labeling to be counter-productive. Both. Now back to trying to protect Palestinians from losing their rightful homes. Take care.
Joachim Martillo
The archetypal ethnic cleansing is not that of Bosnia but that of Nazi Germany, which worked under the cover of legalism — something that the Zionists had long pursued in the guise of political Zionism.
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German Nazis passed all sorts of legislation that forced the Aryanization of businesses, limited Jewish rights in the German state, eventually prevented Jews and Aryans from attending the same schools, criminalized sexual relations between Jews and Aryans, forced the sales of all sorts of property, and forced Jews to leave Germany.
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Zionists have been studiously copying this ethnic cleansing program for decades along with the incorporation of certain innovative tactics from inter bellum Poland.
Shlomo Krol
Cortez, I agree with much of what you said. Of course, the “modernization” of the Jews of Middle Eastern descent by the ruling elites was often bolshevist and cruel. Of course, modern Israel is far from being a model of egalitarian society – and, as I wrote before, the hostility of neighbours contributes to this. But the flaws and ills of the Israeli society by no way can justify the calls to “dismantle” Israel (which is a fantasy anyway, Israel cannot be dismantled, it is here to stay), neither do they contradict the fact that the historical Zionism was just and progressive national liberation movement.
As for “Palestinians are descendants of ancient Israelites” – it’s a myth. Of course, ancient Israelites were one of the components in the ethnogenesis of the modern Palestinians, but you know, there are no pure races, everybody has many ancestors of different origins. There were Syrians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Arabs, Turks and many other peoples who came to this land and left their genes here. There were Sudanese slaves, Chircassian muhajiroon, Armenians and lots of different peoples who left their “traces”. What is important is that it’s just irrelevant, just as the fact, that modern Jews descent from many peoples, including ancient Israelites – but not only! Palestinian genetic link to ancient Israel is irrelevant, because they know about it only from books of the modern scholars, they have neither cultural contuinuity with ancient Israelites, no tradition, nor historical memory about them. Their culture is an Arab culture, and this fact cannot diminish their claims: after all, this culture has been dominant in this land for the last 1500 years.
On the other hand, Jews have cultural continuity which traces back to ancient Israel and it is indeed irrelevant that ancient Israelis were not the only contributors of their “blood” – I repeat again, there are no pure races. Jews are heirs of ancient Israel and they, too, have right for this land.
When the two nations have such conflicting rights, they must find a way to recopncile their claims, to find a good will to talk, to compormise and to co-exist. When the good will is missing, we have the situation we have here, in the Middle East.
And the lack of the good will is MUTUAL here, it’s not that Palestinians have it and Jews don’t.
Richard Witty
“ancestral home”.
The term itself, whether used by Zionists or by Palestinian nationalists, is an oxymoron relative to democracy.
Present democracy is democracy. NOT past.
Walter Dejaco
Mya
thanks for writing this. It is important
annie
aaron, if you are interested in an Israeli image of Arabs i recommend googling Nurit Peled-Elhanan /Israeli textbooks. “In “hundreds and hundreds” of books, she claims she did not find one photograph that depicted an Arab as a “normal person”". there are plenty of interviews available on youtube.
ayla, “it’s really bad!” your enthusiasim aside, i’m not convinced of your sincerity, but you do a very good imitation of a nakba denier. it’s “A policy of removing a particular ethnic population from a geographic area”..which just so happens to be the definition of ethnic cleansing @ Barron’s Law Dictionary. it’s also “The creation of an ethnically homogenous geographic area through the elimination of unwanted ethnic groups by .. forcible displacement” one of the definitions at Britannica Concise Encyclopedia. and “The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by…forced emigration” one of the definitions @ American Heritage Dictionary. so please, spare us your admissions of just how bad you think it is when you refuse to acknowledge what s going on.
Aaron the Fascist Troll
The “prejudice as a ticket to acceptance to a racist society” theory is ridiculous on its face, especially in the case of Mizrahi attitudes towards Arabs and Muslims. I’ve also never seen that hypothesis seriously argued – or even unseriously argued, now that I think about it – only asserted as if it were some self-evident truth.
I don’t doubt that Israeli Jewish images of Arabs are negative. It’s just that I think the images are more different than similar to the traditional Jewish images of Russians and Poles. And regarding the similarities between Zionist and non-Zionist Jewish propaganda, my guess is that what similarities there are, are held in common with almost all images and propaganda of “Mercurian” peoples against “Apollonian” (to use Slezkine’s terminology). What images did the “Assyrians” have of the Arabs in Mesopotamia/Iraq, for instance? Or Lebanese traders of Africans? But that’s just a guess.
Finally, if you want to see how Israeli Ashkenazi and Mizrahi images of Arabs differ, I don’t think textbooks will help you, because they were created by Ashkenazim. I’m basing my judgment on anecdotal evidence: conversations with Mizrahim and Ashkenazim.
Shlomo Krol
The argument whether the events of 1947-1949 constituted an ethnic cleansing, when taken out of histirical context, are misleading. Of course, by the standards of our time, it was an ethnic cleansing, but the very concept of ethnic cleansing, which is loaded with completely negative meaning, is the one our times, of the nineties. The standards of international law do change. You cannot apply modern concept to the past, it is unhistorical. Then, the removal of population on ethnic ground was not uncommon: just two years before 12 mln. of Germans were expelled from central Europe and there are many more examples of what we could call today an “ethnic cleansing”. Including the events of 1947-1949, when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled or driven away from their lands. In order to take these events in context, we must not forget, that not a single Jew remained on the lands, which fell under Jordanian or Egyptian rule. All this is not to diminish the suffering of the expelled Palestinians or the urgency of the situation of their descendants today, but to put the things into the context.
caden
What Annie leaves out is that if you want to see descriptions and depictions of Jews that rival “Jew Suss” go on over to mondoweiss.
Tal
@Annie, Ayla is right. Anti-Zionist rhetoric is driving away from you and your organizations people who acknowledge the wrong-doings of Israel and wish to reconcile with the Palestinians on equal terms.
I’ll give you an example. I’ve been following Ali Abu-Nimah on Twitter for a while now. I’ve always though of him as an extremist. Someone who is unwilling to open his heart to other’s narrative. Today i finally got a copy of his book and to my surprise along the mentioning of the Nakba he also acknowledges the genuine connection of Jews to this land and offers a solution in which the Palestinian right of return exists side by side with the Jewish Law of Return and the Jewish homeland along side the Palestinian homeland.
Now, I am thinking, his rhetoric on twitter (luring BDS supporters) serves a different goal for him than his rhetoric in his book (luring Liberal American Jews).
It seems that on Mondoweiss you writers and especially commentors have made a choice to stick to brutal Anti-Israeli rhetoric. You might want to ponder if it serves any constructive goal or is just a mean to express anger and blow steam…
Joachim Martillo
Witty’s comment shows precisely how sick and delusion Zionists are.
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An ancestral home is a thing of myth.
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Palestine is the real home of the Palestinian population.
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Ethnic Ashkenazim, Moroccan Jewish Arabs, Iraqi Jewish Arabs, and Yemeni Jewish Arabs have no legitimate claim whatsoever to any portion of Palestine.
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Zionists (including the the 80% of American Jews that supported the Gaza Rampage) should return what they stole and pay exemplary damages to the native Palestinian population.
Joachim Martillo
Smooha writes about Arab Jewish hostility to Arabs in Black Panthers the Ethnic Dilemma. The relevant page is 36. For some reason I cannot post the URL. Anyone wishing to read the article can write to me at Joachim.CS.Martillo@gmail.com .
Y.
Aaron,
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“Borat” ‘deals’ with Kazakhstan, which is populated by Turkic (not Slavic) peoples and is almost as far or further from Poland than Israel is (depending from where you measure – Kazakhstan is really large). A large part of the ‘joke’ is the ‘tradition’ of ‘marriage by abduction’ – obviously not a reference to Poland… It’s very much a stretch to go from “Borat” to ‘Pollack’.
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Israelis do not seem to me ‘Mercurian’. S. himself mentioned the Zionist movement was trying to move in an ‘Apollian’ direction. Moreover, fair shares of the population arrived from countries where Jews had different attitudes and place in society than S.’s main testcase (in fairness, Mizrahi Jews’ rising share is a relatively recent phenomena), or from the lower classes (like many Jewish intellectuals over the ages, S. glosses over the lower classes far too easily). There are obvious and much simpler explanation to attitudes (you provided some) rather than certain crude attempts at guilt-by-association.
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Many Mizrahi attitudes (including being much more hawkish) predates mass Mizrahi aliyah into Israel (For one example, see [1]). Mizrahi Jews who immigrated to France or to Latin America (In both cases, the Mizrahi are the majority in the community, middle to upper class – arguably even richer than the Ashkenazi) are very right wing (Israel-wise) in my experience and this can’t be explained by the politically-convenient ‘explanation’ (which tends to assume Mizrahi have no free will or traditions).
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Again, I must note how certain commentators’ reasoning is a perfect outgrowth of Jewish far Left thinking…
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[1]
http://books.google.co.il/books?id=YWorYnKGZ5YC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79#v=onepage
(As an aside, I do highly recommend this book. Written by a PLO supporter during the first intifadah, it is fascinating to compare its projections [ch. 10-11] to the current status. Moreover, I think what Segev said about Tevet’s books applies – ignore the narrative, the facts and the suggestions tell a quite different story)
caden
Tal, Ali Abumineh is a smooth guy. I’ve seen him speak in Chicago. But when he goes in front of American Jews he is full of shit. I’ve seen him speak to non-Jewish audiences and he is an advocate of the destruction of Israel. Same has Annie. At least Martillo is open about his disappointment in not riding shotgun with the Einzatsgruppen, And missing those fun days at Babi Yar.
Adam
Martillo– How much money in damages have you paid to the Wampanoag Indians? When do you plan to leave Massachusetts for your country of origin?
Joachim Martillo
I would have criticized Abunimeh as totally ignorant of Jewish history and Jewish political economics.
Joachim Martillo
Slezkine comes from Soviet studies. His Mercurian/Apollonian distinction makes little sense from a Jewish studies standpoint when it lumps Jews and Gypsies together unless he is trying to equate Jewish business cheating with gypsy thievery.
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The more usual contrast is made between the Dionysian and the Apollonian.
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Hermes as god of merchants can be viewed as a collaborator with Apollo. Hermes is also god of thieves — an aspect that perhaps shows the distrust that the uppermost classes of Roman and Greek society had of businessmen.
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Slezkine’s categorization seems forced.
Joachim Martillo
From reading the primary texts of Zionism it is far from clear that Zionism can be considered a national liberation movement.
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In the late 19th century having a colonial empire was status. The Germans wanted to do it, but Jews found a way to do it on the cheap.
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The Zionist intelligentsia never intended to relocate to Palestine and expected to run the Zionist colony from Virtual Colonial Motherland in Europe.
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The idea of sending E. European radical Jews to Palestine looks most like the British deportation of convicts to Australia.
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Central European Jews wanted to normalize disproportionate Jewish power. Both the Hohenzollern and Habsburg Empires were multinational, and Polish nationalism, which was in some sense the model for Zionism, was a very bad nationalism because the integrity of both states.
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Zionism was the good nationalism that did not threaten to break up either state, and Jewish power could appear to be vested in the developing Jewish state and not in the local Jewish political-economic elite.
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This diversion actually works. Americans always talk about Israeli influence when they really mean the disproportionate influence of the American Zionst political economic oligarchy or — as I might say — the Zionist virtual colonial mother land, which has now become a powerful Zionist imperial system in which the USA is a dependent and intimidated client state.
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In any case, the American Zionist oligarchy (a subset of peninsulares) clearly calls the shots in Israel and the subordinate Israeli political economic elite (a subset of criollos), whose members are almost always extensively vetted in the USA, has gradually become more and more Americanized or even American like Netanyahu, Oren and Fisher.
Joachim Martillo
Note that Krol results to trying to learn International Law from Stalin because he has no rational arguments to support his vile racist position.
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Rafael Lemkin condemned the ethnic cleansing/destruction of the Ostdeutsch communities as precisely the sort of genocide that he was trying to criminalize with the International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.
Joachim Martillo
Krol’s discussion of the destruction of Jewish Arab communities is either totally dishonest or completely ignorant.
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The Egyptian Jewish community left when the Egyptian government began redistributing wealth in general and in the aftermath of tensions created when the Israeli government used to the Egyptian Jewish community to undertake terrorist actions in Egypt.
Joachim Martillo
This comment has been deleted
Joachim Martillo
BTW, I meant:
Both the Hohenzollern and Habsburg Empires were multinational, and Polish nationalism, which was in some sense the model for Zionism, was a very bad nationalism because IT THREATENED the integrity of both states.
caden
Obviously Martillo and Mya are on the same page. Otherwise she wouldn’t have let him rum rampant.
caden
run
Aaron the Fascist Troll
Interesting comments from JM. I’ve seen Israel compared to interwar Poland once before: by the paleoconservative Paul Gottfried, who I think has a son or daughter living in Israel. Gottfried wrote that interwar Poland was the best analogy to Israel, in particular much more accurate than the analogy with America, which is inaccurate and dishonest. He also mentioned the Revisionists’ (and especially Jabotinsky’s) admiration for Marshall Pilsudski.
I never liked the label “colonialist” applied to Zionism. My reasoning was, if Israel is the colony, then what is the metropolis? Not Britain and not the US, I think – there really isn’t any. But I’ve never seen diaspora Zionist Jewish elites assigned the role of “metropolis” before. Interesting way of looking at it.
Re Mercurians and Apollonians, those labels are relative to each other, not absolute. So I don’t see what’s so wrong about classifying both Jews and Gypsies as Mercurians, despite their differences relative to EACH OTHER, given their similar relations to the Apollonian populations.
Re the exile and dispossession of the Egyptian Jews: I understand anti-Jewish and pro-Arab partisanship, but JM’s description of that seems a bit unfair, to say the least. The Jewish *community* was involved in terrorism? Would JM similarly contextualize an Israeli expulsion of Palestinian Arabs, given that the Arab “community” was involved in terrorism?
Cortez
Ayla:”But when you say ethnic cleansing, I think: not really. They’re not really trying to entirely remove Palestinians from all of the land (though some extremists want this).
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How is not ethnic cleansing if the refugees haven’t been invited back and the policies and laws in the East Jerusalem, the West Bank and in Israel proper point towards an effort to exclude and remove Palestinians? Its been over 50 years and I’ve never seen an effort by the Israeli government to incorporate the refugees let alone people of the West Bank into Israeli society. There is still an absentee property law? why?
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“But the flaws and ills of the Israeli society by no way can justify the calls to “dismantle” Israel (which is a fantasy anyway, Israel cannot be dismantled, it is here to stay), neither do they contradict the fact that the historical Zionism was just and progressive national liberation movement.”
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Israel may be here to stay but do the lies, myth and continue oppression have to to stay? I would support of historical Zionism if it accepted all people in the Levant as equals but it currently doesn’t
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“As for “Palestinians are descendants of ancient Israelites” – it’s a myth. Of course, ancient Israelites were one of the components in the ethnogenesis of the modern Palestinians, but you know, there are no pure races, everybody has many ancestors of different origins. There were Syrians, Greeks, Persians, Romans, Arabs, Turks and many other peoples who came to this land and left their genes here. There were Sudanese slaves, Chircassian muhajiroon, Armenians and lots of different peoples who left their “traces”. What is important is that it’s just irrelevant, just as the fact, that modern Jews descent from many peoples, including ancient Israelites – but not only! Palestinian genetic link to ancient Israel is irrelevant, because they know about it only from books of the modern scholars, they have neither cultural contuinuity with ancient Israelites.
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But its not a myth though. I can’t believe you are denying science, history and archaeology all in one. Hebrew University has some great studies on this. No one is mentioning pure races either(where do you come up with this?). In addition, despite mentioning these different ethnic groups (I’m not sure where you get this data from), DNA studies have shown that Palestinians represent a core population that has been here since antiquity. They also have some admixture from European (corresponding with the Crusades) and from the Arab sources (corresponding to the Arab-Muslim invasion). This is not unusual to the Levant since Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese all have a similar history.
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How is the Palestinian genetic link to Israelites irrelevant if one of the central claims of Zionist is that Jews have a direct link from thousands of years ago and genetic studies have been propagated by Jewish groups to support that propostion(which has been proven to be true and has shown that ashekenazic jews are more closely related to Palestinians then they are to Sephardic Jews). And actually that is a complete lie about cultural continuity with Israel b/c some aspects of Palestinian culture, or more accurately described Levantine Arabs, are actually related to Jewish practice (including funeral and circumcision practices). If you don’t believe Palestinians Arabs are human or should be treated like garbage be open about it, don’t continue to deny facts about their existence or history. The greatest thing about all of this is that Jews are not precluded from their history because they are in fact part of it and thrived through it. Its sad to see that the history of Palestinian Arab Jews (who have the most direct link to the historical Judaism but fairly small in number) have been eclipsed in the midst of lies.
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Yes, their culture is Arab but one can be both Jewish and Arab, because Arab culture is a mix of linguistic, language, religion affiliation (whether muslim, christian or jewish)….hence the rich history of Yemenite Jews and Egyptian Jews which Zionists ignore all the time.
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“On the other hand, Jews have cultural continuity which traces back to ancient Israel and it is indeed irrelevant that ancient Israelis were not the only contributors of their “blood” – I repeat again, there are no pure races. Jews are heirs of ancient Israel and they, too, have right for this land.”
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Ancient heirs of Israel? If you are going to make that claim be consistent and factual and include all Jews.
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“When the two nations have such conflicting rights, they must find a way to recopncile their claims, to find a good will to talk, to compormise and to co-exist. When the good will is missing, we have the situation we have here, in the Middle East.
And the lack of the good will is MUTUAL here, it’s not that Palestinians have it and Jews don’t.”
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But absence of a good will is the direct result of Eastern European invasion into Israel that involved the cleaning of indigenous people…Political Islam would have always been a problem(as any political movement motivated by religion seems to be) but I highly doubt we would see a conflict of this magnitude if (a) no one was excluded from their homes and (b) a Jewish state was created by Palestinian Arab Jews whose culture, language and history was more closely connected to the habitants of the land. It would be like any other neighboring country without the blatant colonialism, in fact the worst kind of colonialism (Not the Spanish, English, French kind of forcing one’s culture on natives…)
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Joachim Martillo
Aaron, google the Lavon Affair.
Joachim Martillo
BTW, Pilsudski was generally considered philo-semitic especially by the Endeks and offshoots. The PPS generally engaged in outreach to Jews and other non-ethnic-Poles in Poland. There was a great deal of ideological affinity between the PPS and socialist Zionism. Rosa Luxemburg argued that the PPS was more fascist than socialist, but the crossover point between fascism and socialism is often fuzzy.
Joachim Martillo
BTW, one must doubt the value of any poll of Jewish Arabs in Stolen Palestine in 1949 because the vast majority of Jewish Arabs were manipulated into coming to Palestine after 1949.
Joachim Martillo
How Jewish National Consolidation Works
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Before the nature of Jewish national consolidation can be addressed, a serious look at historical Jewish political economics is required as well as the broadening or rethinking of certain basic concepts in political science and economic theory.
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The critical approach requires us to start thinking in terms of transnational politics instead of local, national, and international politics because the vast majority of modern Jews have origins in historic Poland, which is the first modern failed state and which was divided among the Hohenzollern, Habsburg, and Romanov Empires.
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Assuming that national consolidation must be territorial and linguistic as has generally been the case with modern European nationalism is far too limiting. Historically Jews constituted a metapopulation (a term from statistical population biology) united by an international trade network and obedience to a sacred law that served as a sort of universal commercial code.
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As faith declined in Europe, Jewish leaders looked for other means to maintain Jewish social economic networks of trust across Jewish economic niches (territories) in order to preserve Jewish incomes.
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Commitment to building a Jewish state in Palestine was one of several proposed substitutes for adherence to sacred law.
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From this standpoint, consolidating a virtual Jewish national consciousness is a Jewish Diaspora phenomenon that defines modern Jewish transnational politics.
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The concept of virtual state consolidation explains
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1) why there was an Israel Lobby for approximately four decades before there was a State of Israel and
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2) why Israeli politics often seems so much less important than Jewish Diaspora politics: peninsulares versus criollos,
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3) why Jewish political and economic behavior so often looks conspiratorial, and
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4) why Jewish aggression so often expresses itself economically (unlike gentile aggression which tends to be territorial), so often includes character assassination or defamation, and so often involves subversion or manipulation of third parties to do the dirty work of harming those that Jewish leaders target for destruction.
Joachim Martillo
It was obvious Kazakhistan was a standin for Poland in Borat because Borat spoke Polish whenever he was supposed to be speaking Kazakh.
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Borat was full of the usual bigoted racist prejudiced Jewish slanders on Poland and Poles.
Joachim Martillo
“How is the Palestinian genetic link to Israelites irrelevant if one of the central claims of Zionist is that Jews have a direct link from thousands of years ago and genetic studies have been propagated by Jewish groups to support that propostion(which has been proven to be true and has shown that ashekenazic jews are more closely related to Palestinians then they are to Sephardic Jews).”
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I have probably read all the genetic studies of this sort. The Hammer-Oppenheim crap is funded by rich Jabotinskian Zionists, and the papers generally redefine the Levant to include the territory just south of the Black Sea, which is the Khazar Sea is most Turkic languages.
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In general there is a complete discontinuity between the Judaic communities of late antiquity and the proto-Ashkenazic communities that can be identified starting in the 10th century.
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Lately I have noticed that an increasing number of Jewish Studies scholars have begun to take the position that I developed in the 70s.
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Judaic religion (the Cult of Yah or El) began to spread among non-Judean Greek populations during the Hellenistic period. As one travels North from Palestine, the Judaic populations have more and more tenuous connection to Judea until one reaches Antioch — the Chicago of the Ancient world — where the Judaic population is entirely of Greek origin with no Judean connection whatsoever.
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To find the real Judean connection, we look at the migration of Judeans (often followers of Jesus) to Hijaz where they blended with the local Arabic-speaking population and prepared the way for Islam which is nothing more than an evolved form of Judean Christianity.
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When the Byzantine Empire withdrew from Palestine and Arab tribes (often former foederati) filled the power void, the Judean population, which was already mostly practicing the older version of Judean Christianity blended into Islam.
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In contrast Southern Russian populations adopted a form of Judaic religion that was discontinuous with the Judaic religious currents of Palestine.
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We see genetic overlap between Levantine and Balkan populations because Greek and Turkic populations exported members into both regions for millennia.
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Ethnic Ashkenazim that claim an ancestral connection to Palestine, to Judeans, or to Israelites are simply deluded or mendacious. They are to be treated with contempt or to be pitied as mentally deficient.
the other joe
Martillo, can’t you read the writing on the wall: nobody is listening to your brainless rants.
Aaron the Fascist Troll
I’m listening to his comments. I think they’re among the most interesting comments I’ve seen posted here, more interesting than most of the articles.
JM, I’ve heard about the Lavon affair. My objection was to your saying that the Egyptian Jewish COMMUNITY was involved in terrorism. That’s like saying the Jewish-American COMMUNITY is involved in espionage.
Shlomo Krol
Aaron,
I don’t know who you are and I don’t know Martillo. His comments are obviously racist and I think he should have better preached about “Jewish business cheating and Gypsy thievery” on some neo-Nazi site.
As for my comment, to which he responds, I think, it is very clear, what I meant: that, during the war of independence of Israel, not only hundreds of thousands of Arabs left, were driven out or expelled, but also every single Jew among those, who lived on territories, which fell under Jordanian and Egyptian authority, were expelled or driven out. Now, the exodus of Jews, Greeks, Italians, Armenians from Egypt in the 50th can also serve as an example of what we could call today an “ethnic cleansing”, but I didn’t talk about it, only mentioned, that there were many examples of what we consider today a crime of ethnic cleansing in the not so remote history.
By the way, there is an ongoing “silent” ethnic cleansing, which is really going on right now and is hardly mentioned – the expulsion of one of the most ancient Christian communities – the one of Iraq. It is really tragic and is going on now, when the norms of international law don’t tolerate it – but nobody really cares.
As for Martillo’s comments – these are distortion of history, racism and hatred, nothing else. Again, I don’t know who you are, but if you read his comments and do not pay attention at his fascism, well, bad for you.
Joachim Martillo
אולי יהודים אמריקאים מתחילים להבין שאין להם קשר אמיתי כדי פלסטין הגנובה או הכבושה
http://www.haaretz.co.il/opinions/1.1691783
Joachim Martillo
Removing Zionists from territories under Arab control makes perfect sense. Zionists adhere to a genocidal extremist ideology and invaded Palestine in order to steal the country from the native population.
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If anything, they were a good deal more criminal than the German colonists (not Ostdeutschen) sent into Eastern Europe.
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Nuremberg Tribunal Case law is completely clear on this point.
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Such settlers are criminals and have no protections under International Law.
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It is worth noting that Zionist literature of the 20s and 30s explicitly referred to Kibbutzim as forward fire bases for the conquest of the land.
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In any case non-Zionist groups were unmolested, and Samaritans remained in Nablus after the 1947-8 Zionist aggression.
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As for Jewish business cheating and gypsy cheating, I was trying to parse what Slezkine’s distinction between Apollonian and Mercurian was supposed to mean.
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As for whether Jews cheat in business disproportionately or gypsies steal disproportionately, these are questions which can be analyzed sociologically.
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I do not study gypsies but I have read articles that have looked at gypsies. The contrast between assimilated and non-assimilated gypsies is stunning.
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As for whether Jews cheat in business, I did look at Jewish practices in 19th century German (including German Poland). Jewish and non-Jewish critics of Jewish business practices had a lot of grounds for complaint. Addressing the issue is not anti-Semitic. It is in fact simply a matter of statistics.
I did see some prejudice in critics that did not address Jewish collaboration with the German elite. (Probably the most famous example is that of Gerson von Bleichroeder and Otto von Bismarck. In fact they did occasionally collaborate to cheat in business.)
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There is a good deal of evidence that wealthy Jews in Germany and Austria used their wealth to stymie business reform that would make business dealings more transparent.
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At some point I will try to research modern American statistics, but Lindemann has noted that 90% of those convicted of financial crime in the S&L debacle were Jewish. The statistic seems disproportionate.
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Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America by Bloom gives some examples of more traditional Jewish business cheating.
http://books.google.com/books/about/Postville.html?id=dRP_6bhEInMC
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Anyone that has followed the Postville story is aware that more recently Rubashkin and others were involved in an amazing level of criminality.
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As for Egyptian ethnic cleansing, it was non-existent. Egypt implemented laws that were unfavorable to those with certain classes of assets. Members of minority groups that did not hold such assets generally did not leave in the 50s although it was generally easier for members of minorities to emigrate 20 years later when the Egyptian economy seriously tanked.
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The tribulations of the Iraqi Christian community should be attributed mostly to Jewish Zionist Neocons and the general program of this latter group to incinerate one Arab or Muslim state after another. It is particularly offensive for a Jew unwilling to acknowledge explicitly the evil and criminality of Zionism to shed crocodile tears for Iraqi Christians.
Joachim Martillo
Aaron, I may misremember the Lavon Affair, but I was under the impression that Israeli intelligence approached Egyptian Jews through the official Egyptian Jewish community.
Aaron the Fascist Troll
Shlomo, don’t you worry about me. I read comments skeptically and critically, including JM’s. A lot of what he says is clearly false, a lot of what he says is probably true, and a lot of what he says is neither true nor false – not factual – but interesting. By the way, I’ve been called a racist and a fascist more than once at this site, so those words don’t scare me.
Shlomo Krol
Martillo reminded me an old joke: an anti-Semite tells another: Let’s go and beat Jew. He responds: And what if they beat us? The first one says: Us?! What for?!
Joachim Martillo
I can tell jokes too.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, a Jew invited the Polish peasant, who sheltered him during the German occupation, to come to the USA for a week before and after Holocaust Day.
The Jew lived in Gaithersburg and brought his rescuer to the ceremonies for Holocaust Day at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.
The peasant was impressed and astounded. “That is quite a building and all the government officials come to speak. Who pays for it?”
“Some large Jewish donors but the US government pays most of the expenses.”
“Oh, I understand, my dear little Jewish friend. Now that Jews don’t have good honest Polish peasants to cheat anymore, they cheat the United States of America.”
Edward T. Linenthal describes the true meaning of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Preserving Memory, The Struggle to Create America’s Holocaust Museum on p. 258:
“The [USHMM] opening [ceremonies] committee decided not to invite [Israeli President] Herzog to speak at any event, but White House staff, continuing the tradition of understanding the museum in the manner of previous administrations — that is, as an affirmation of American support for the State of Israel — told Meyerhoff in early April that Herzog would speak.”
http://books.google.com/books?id=B4KE6dlFVNwC&pg=PA258&dq=preserving+memory+white+house+staff+meyerhoff&hl=en&sa=X&ei=znSVT9blHIPX0QH4nMnmBw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thus, the USHMM is an offense to all decent Americans and human beings committed to principles of democracy, anti-racism and support for human rights, upon which the Zionist state routinely tramples.
Adam
…and so we come full circle: Martillo’s crude anti-Semtic post reiterates the point of Mya’s editorial: Jews have used the Holocaust to establish a racist state.
Joachim Martillo
Ben-Gurion understood the value of PR and made the same point that I am making.
“If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter—because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People.” – Ben-Gurion (1938).
The deaths of so many Jewish children would distract from the atrocities and crimes that racist murderous genocidal Zionists had already committed and intended to commit in order to steal Palestine from the native population.
Jack Foreigner
Parts of Joachim Martillo’s last few posts really resonated with me.
China’s my area of study, and this matter of Jews cheating in business remind me of all the complaints against ethnic Chinese throughout Asia, that they are economic parasites.
That such charges have been levied mostly by Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia lends them less credence to me but the similarities with regards to European Jewry is striking. Of course, the Chinese do not have any sympathy in the West, no matter the pogroms against them, so in this respect the two cases are quite different.
As for the veracity of such claims, well, it’s true that Jews are an influence all out of proportion with their numbers in business in the West (but also many other spheres of life, such as education, the sciences, the arts, the law, and of course politics…and I’d even say the media, however impolite it is to acknowledge such a truth), and it’s also true that ethnic Chinese are an influence all out of proportion with their numbers in the economy throughout much of Asia (even Siberia, but not Korea and Japan, and nowhere with the same level of influence in other spheres of life)…but what’s interesting to me is the resentment that results, which in turn comes from people’s sense of self-identity.
A poor Jew obviously has more in common with a poor Pole, but somehow these two are antagonistic. Why? And why should a poor Malay be concerned that he’s working for a rich Chinese as opposed to a rich Malay??
It’s just instinctual, then, and something that we don’t so much grow out of as learn to better manage, this knee-jerk sense of racial/ethnic/cultural solidarity.
Joachim Martillo
Lindemann discusses some of the issues that Jack brings up in the conclusion to Esau’s Tears. Unfortunately, because Lindemann severely underestimates the crimes of Judeo-Bolshevism and does not really even address the crimes of Zionism, his analysis is skewed.
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It is worth mentioning that poor Jews are never as poor as poor Poles. Poor Poles still often live at subsistence levels. Jews in Poland invariably had higher incomes, higher education, longer lifespans, and better health than the non-Jews among whom they lived.
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Jews in historic Poland (and Germany) were part of the extractive elite that exploited the middle to lower bourgeoisie and the peasantry.
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Jews became angry at Polish aristocrats when the Polish aristocrats became opposed to exploitation and abuse of the Polish peasantry. (Solidarity was required to force the creation and an independent Poland.) In contrast German Jews and German aristocrats never became quite so estranged, and among German Nazis there was definitely an undercurrent of anger at German aristocrats and it parallel German Nazi anti-Semitism.
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It is not clear that there is any less Jewish cheating in academia or other non-business spheres than there is in business. I have corresponded with non-Jewish academics throughout the world that complain of Jewish academic favoritism throughout the world. Now that could simply be sour grapes, but the Jewish Nobel prize record is simply statistically impossible without Jewish favoritism toward fellow Jews.
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The problem with working for wealthy Jews or a wealthy overseas Chinese is obvious. The wealth of Jews or of Chinese historically has as much as possible gone into the Jewish community or into a Chinese clan and never come back out. If a poor Pole works for a rich Pole or a poor Malay works for a rich Malay, the poor may eventually get to see some of the money again via recirculation.
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E. Asia is not my specialty but I have the impression that overseas Chinese elites have actively tried to reform themselves in ways that Jewish elites do not.
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In addition overseas Chinese among non-Chinese simply do not have anything comparable to the Jewish record of targeted assassinations, mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide against non-Jews.
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I also do not see overseas Chinese subverting governments in the way international Zionists do.
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While overseas Chinese have some similarities to international Zionists, there are serious differences.
Aaron the Fascist Troll
OK, we’re getting close to the 200 comment mark. What’s the record here?
With all these similarities between Jews and overseas Chinese, it’s puzzling that you still reject the “Mercurian” label so strongly. Do you reject the “market-dominant minority” concept just as strongly?
Kevin MacDonald has drawn distinctions between Jews and other “Mercurians” such as overseas Chinese similar to yours. He says that Jews are a “hostile elite” in that Jews, unlike overseas Chinese and other Mercurians, culturally subvert the traditional host society. He calls Mercurians a “spurious” category, if I remember correctly. I can believe that what he says about Jews vs. others is often true, but still see the “Mercurian” category as very useful.
The quote by Ben-Gurion was horrifying. I think your gloss on it actually took away from its impact. If your goal is to persuade as well as to vent anger, I think some more restraint would help.
The idea that “the Jewish Nobel prize record is simply statistically impossible without Jewish favoritism toward fellow Jews” is just ridiculous. Do Kenyans win all those marathons because of Kenyan favoritism? And speaking of statistics, the correct comparison for Jewish criminals on Wall Street is with the crime rate among their gentile counterparts in finance (proportionate to those populations), not with the size of the gentile population as a whole.
Aaron the Fascist Troll
By the way, in case anybody’s interested in Slezkine’s categories of Mercurians and Apollonians, the first chapter of his “The Jewish Century” is online for free, courtesy of Princeton University Press:
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7819.html?iframe=true&width=100%&height=100%
That’s the only part of the book I’ve read.
Joachim Martillo
The problem with Jewish Nobel prize winners is the reduction of population with the Holocaust and the fact that the rate of Jewish Nobel prize winners began to increase far too fast in the 50s relative to the rate of Jewish Nobel Prize winners before the start of WW2.
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We can infer from the statistics that Jewish Nobel prize winners, who were not selecting tribally before WW2, became highly tribal after WW2.
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It is not inconceivable that they were encouraged to skew their voting in order to prove that Jews produced lots of good in the world and were neither murderous Soviets nor economic parasites.