Comments on: Mohammed Salaymah’s fists vs. the Border Police’s guns

By: Oscar

Oscar — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 00:03:10 +0000

Really Larry? Everything Philos said is true regarding how people feel about the magav? Everybody detests the magav?

It seems that only a few days ago you were complaining about the exact opposite. Remember this?

http://972mag.com/the-heroine-vs-the-terrorist-a-case-study-in-israeli-brainwashing/61969/

Your blog. ‘The Heroine vs the Terrorist’

You were bitterly complaining about how Israeli papers and bloggers lauded the magav.

Are you sure that you are not just talking about fellow ideologues who agree with Philos that the magavniks are trigger happy brutes of particular ethnic origins? Because if you are, that would only make ONLY those co-ideologues the racists.

As for other Israelis, you already summed them up. They are lauding what the magav does and therefore they are NOT the racists.

By: Oscar

Oscar — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 02:15:53 +0000

One more thing Larry.

Had our Philos called the magav trigger happy brutes, I would have had an entirely different discussion with him.

But since he found it necessary to mention that they are mostly Mizrahi, Russian, Beduin and Druze, I stand by what I say about Philos.

He is a hypocritical elitist who thinks he is a cut above the rest. Oh and he is a bigot too.

By: Oscar

Oscar — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:44:25 +0000

But Philos said this:

Magav recruits

- poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

This was compiled based on just a couple of your posts. Did I leave anyone out Philos?

and they are trigger happy brutes.

Let us say that they are. And I don’t agree. Why did he have to specify them in terms of ethnicity and socioeconomic background?

I mean, Larry, brutes are brutes, whether they are rich or poor. Whether they are Mizrahim or Ashkenazim. And racists are racists too, again, no matter who they are.

Don’t you agree Larry?

By: Larry Derfner

Larry Derfner — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:59:44 +0000

Everything Philos is saying is true – I know it, anybody who’s lived in Israel for awhile and been in the army, or even has heard and read a good deal about the army, knows it. I was in a reserve unit in Gaza serving alongside a Border Police unit, and another time I spent a month guarding the Border Police base in Gaza – yeah, everything Philos said is true.

By: Oscar

Oscar — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 19:03:29 +0000

Thank you Philos. What you said above vindicates me. If I had any doubt about you and your prejudices, you cleared it up.

Kushim huh? Not only are you a racist but you revolve in racist circles.

I hope anyone who reads what you say from now on will take it with the large grain of salt that it needs to be taken as.

By: Philos

Philos — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:32:02 +0000

I was not in the magav! Good god, no. I was SECONDED to the magav for a few weeks. I ordinarily served in the army and not the border police. I did not bad mouth all Israelis. I didn’t even bad mouth the IDF (see my comments above about the superiority of certain regiments over Kfir and magav). If you don’t want to think that violence in say the African-American ghettos of the USA is more to do about socio-economics rather than “who they are” then by all means go on living in la-la-land but please don’t try to impose your reality on the facts.
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That soldiers have a feeling of superiority over magav and magavnikim suffer from an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the regular army is a bloody fact of life in Israel and the security institutions. Ask a paratrooper or Golani what they think of magavnikim. You won’t hear from most of them the kind of couched analysis I have given. You’ll hear “arsim” “idiotim” “choovrah shel kushim/russim alimim”
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I get it. You’re green. You’re not Israeli yet. You don’t want to either get the hell out of here or despair at all the shit around you. I get it. Enjoy the aliyah benefits my taxes and the taxes of my parents paid for you. I, nor they, got shit from the state because, like the haradeim like to say, we are secular donkeys. We pay our taxes, we go to the army, we even vote in these disgusting spectacles called elections, and everybody else profits from us – olim, haradim, settlers, and the economic oligarchy. But the TV and our politicians assure we’re not friers. When you understand what it means to be a total and utter frier your whole life; then you can safely call yourself Israeli.

By: Oscar

Oscar — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:05:55 +0000

You want to know what infuriated me, Philos? The fact that you obviously hold yourself above your fellow human beings.

By your own admission, you served in the magav. Yet you set yourself apart from:

- socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society;

- poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

You called them “trigger happy brutes”. OK you blame the system for it. But you seem to claim that somehow you were not affected by the same system. How come? To me that does not ring true.

You want to know what I think? I think that undoubtedly there is a grain of truth in what you say. Especially in 2001, at the height of the suicide bombing campaign by the Palestinians. I can imagine some magavniks succumbing to hate. But it does not have to be because they were brutalised. Or because of their ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds. It is because of their own make up.

I dislike people who generalise. They are the ones who are prejudiced or even racist.

Last word Philos. I know that like everywhere else, Israel too has racists. But I dislike people who bad mouth all Israelis and a whole institution like Zahal, just because he had some bad personal experiences and saw some bad things.

Try and get a bit of perspective and stop being so bitter and twisted.

By: Philos

Philos — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 08:49:28 +0000

The Magav are brutes. They are brutes because they are themselves brutalized. They are brutalized by society before they enter basic training and then they are brutalized in basic training. They are beaten and tortured. It is the Magav way. A middle-class Ashknasi (or Mizrachi or Russian) would not survive Magav basic training. They’ll put a bullet in their own head. So, yes, they’re brutes but not because of their nature but because of they’re very brutal nurturing.
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Like I said before, anyone who knows spit about Israel knows what I am stating is fact. The Magav are the most violent of all the forces serving in the territories. The majority of criminal cases for unlawful killing (that usually go nowhere), brutality (that rarely go somewhere) and theft of property (usually cash or credit cards) tend to come from the ranks of the Magav (and lately Kfir, which is an inferior infantry regiment) rather than Tsanchanim, Givati, Golani or Nahal. Magavnikim lack the psychological temperament to get into regular infantry fighting unit. This is not prejudice, Oscar, this is the way the lishkat geyoos works.
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Clearly my remarks must infuriate you because I am describing Israel to you and you are unable to countenance what I describe. Israel is a sort of caste society, your caste determined by the type of service you do, which is why Israelis who didn’t serve at all but succeeded immensely are hated. It is why the jobniks who succeed outside the army must be extra patriotic to be considered mainstream. This is the shitty Israeli reality and it sucks! No protectzia or combinot no social progression. Hell you can’t even get into the good units of the army without it. So much for meritocracy and melting pot…

By: Oscar

Oscar — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 01:18:27 +0000

I am retarded am I Philos? Because I don’t understand what you said?

Well then lets see what you did say about all those little groups who you said the magav recruits. You said:

“They’re trigger happy brutes”

So let me assure you my arrogant little elitist idiot. It makes you a very prejudiced person against the:

- socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society;

- poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

Go and read Orwells animal farm. There is a character there called Napoleon, a pig, he too SAID that all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal. Recognise yourself?

I am sure you do. Thats why I made you so angry. It isn’t good to look in the mirror that someone holds up to you, is it Philos?

By: Philos

Philos — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 21:32:38 +0000

For lack of a better word – you are retarded. That Mizrachim, Russian and Ethiopian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin are socially, economically and educationally disadvantaged in Israel is a statement of fact – not prejudice. I did not claim that they are where they are because of who they are. If you knew spit about this country then you’d know that these groups have historically and continue to be discriminated against in terms of housing, employment and education. Furthermore, being “too old” for IDF recruitment post aliyah is being about 26 years old and over. Again, if you knew spit about this country you would have understood what I meant by that. I harbour no particular animus against my fellow Israelis although I do hold animus against particular Israelis. And I’ll hold my hands up to it; I thoroughly dislike the fact that Israel has become the dumping ground for all the ideologically (and otherwise) deranged wingnuts from the British and American diaspora. I am definetly not one of those “kol ha’kavod” Israelis to olim from rich countries who’ve come to play cowboys and indians with our lives. Kahanism was afterall an American import….