Appreciate this article? +972 depends on your support -- click here to help us keep going

Analysis News

Mohammed Salaymah's fists vs. the Border Police's guns

The IDF video makes it appear extremely unlikely that border policewoman ‘N.’ was justified in shooting the Hebron teenager. 

From the dark, fairly crude IDF video, there are so many things we don’t know about the killing of 17-year-old Mohammed Salaymah by border policewoman “N.” in Hebron a week ago. For one thing, we don’t even know if N. was the only shooter; from the video it looks to me like two police officers might have fired at the boy.

We don’t know if Salaymah pulled a realistic-looking cigarette-lighter gun during the fight, which was N.’s stated justification for shooting him; you can’t see such an object in the video, although again, the video is dark and not very distinct, as if done in “night vision.”

We don’t know what happened just before Salaymah went up to a border policeman and attacked him with his fists – there’s a cut in the 54-second video at 0:24. We also don’t know why the IDF waited four days before making the video available to the public.

We don’t know whether the eyewitness quoted by B’Tselem was correct in saying that the border policemen saw Salaymeh approaching the checkpoint with a gun that looked real, and either confiscated it or tried to, and that Salaymeh was shouting, “It’s mine, it’s mine” during the fight, and was either trying to grab the gun back from the border policeman or stop him from taking it. If this is true – and we don’t know if it is or not – it would cast extreme doubt on N.’s story that she thought the gun was real. If the Border Police had confiscated the cigarette lighter, they would have known immediately it wasn’t a gun, and if they wanted to confiscate it because they thought it was real, they wouldn’t be standing at ease and allowing Salaymeh to saunter from one of them to another before he started swinging, as the video shows. But B’Tselem spokeswoman Sarit Michaeli told me the eyewitness, whom B’Tselem considers generally reliable, doesn’t want to tell his story to the Border Police, so we’ll probably never know whether it was true or not.

So what do we know from the video? We know that N. didn’t simply execute Salaymah; the boy clearly attacked another border policeman at the checkpoint, like N. said.

But on the other hand, the shooting didn’t go down like N. described it: “I saw the Palestinian had knocked the soldier down and was pointing a gun at him,” she told Yedioth Aharonoth, and said she had no choice but to fire in that instant. In the video, the shooting occurs a moment after the soldier breaks loose from Salaymah –  and the Palestinian is surrounded by three of them.

It never made any sense to me whatsoever that a Palestinian would attack a border policeman in Hebron with a toy gun; there are less foolish ways to commit suicide. I think N., either by herself or with one of her partners – it’s hard to tell from the video – killed a teenage boy who went off on one of them, when they could have easily subdued him – they were three armed soldiers against one unarmed young man – without shooting.

Still, whatever was or was not edited out of the video, Salaymah clearly started the fatal fight with the border policeman: He went up to him, he started swinging away, he was carrying the fight to the soldier.

Why did he do such a thing? It seems he just lost it. Whether this was because they took his cigarette-lighter gun away, or they said something or did something he didn’t like (the Border Police are notorious for being the most brutal to Palestinians of all Israeli security forces), or because he was sick of living under Israel’s thumb, or because he hated Jews, or because he had a fight with his girlfriend, we don’t know.

But one thing we do know: Mohammed Salaymah had no weapon besides his fists, so he was not a threat to anyone’s life, which means he was not a terrorist like Israel says, not even by the loosest definition of the word.

And in all probability, N. was no heroine as she’s been made out to be, but rather another Israeli Border Police officer who, facing a Palestinian, was too quick on the trigger. If that is indeed the story, and I think it is, it’s a very old one.

Muhammad Ziad Awad Salaymah, a 17-year-old Palestinian shot to death at an army checkpoint in Hebron

Related
WATCH: Security camera captures shooting of Palestinian teenager in Hebron
The heroine vs. the terrorist: A case study in brainwashing
Why was 17-year-old Muhammad killed?

For additional original analysis and breaking news, visit +972 Magazine's Facebook page or follow us on Twitter. Our newsletter features a comprehensive round-up of the week's events. Sign up here.

View article: AAA
Share article
Print article
  • COMMENTS

    1. aristeides

      We also do know that the video contradicts N’s story in just about every particular.

      Reply to Comment
    2. Jonah

      I would just like to point out that the writer quoted the policewoman incorrectly.

      The following quote “I saw the Palestinian had knocked the soldier down and was pointing a gun at him,” does not appear anywhere in the linked YNET story.

      In fact this line doesn’t sound like anything I’ve read about this incident.

      Reply to Comment
    3. Weinstein Henry

      May I suggest being a smoker that the size of a fantasy cigarette-lighter gun is not the size of a “toy gun”, for obvious practical reasons: much smaller, the size of a fantasy cigarette-lighter, a fantasy Zippo for instance, 20-30% bigger than a common lighter.
      May I suggest that the IDF picture doesn’t show us the real size of the “toy gun”, and doesn’t prove that Muhammad’s fantasy cigarette lighter gun had the size of the “toy gun” described in the IDF version of the clash?
      >https://twitter.com/CaptainBarakRaz/status/278945643488235520
      May I suggest that Muhammad was not stupid or suicidal to the point of having on him in his pocket a king-size fantasy cigarette-lighter gun the size of a “toy gun”, especially when he was nearby Israeli police border?
      May I suggest the IDF to post another picture of the same fantasy cigarette-lighter gun which belonged to Muhammad showing us how it looks: it’s easy, they just have to take the pic of the hand of someone holding the same “toy gun”.

      Reply to Comment
      • Weinstein Henry

        I mean: a real picture of the real object authentified, showing without contest possible the real size.

        Reply to Comment
      • The Trespasser

        >May I suggest being a smoker that the size of a fantasy cigarette-lighter gun is not the size of a “toy gun”

        No, you can’t suggest such nonsense.
        https://www.google.co.il/search?q=lighetr+gun

        Lighter guns comes in all sizes.

        Reply to Comment
    4. Shmuel

      Since the internet has been clogged with ill informed comments from the chattering class, I thought the more open minded ones amongst you may be interested in a different perspective about what the Israeli border police does and why:

      http://blog.gale.com/speakingglobally/the-view-from-here/the-view-from-israel-border-police/

      From the article:

      ” As I walked around the women’s dorms, I saw Hello Kitty stickers on a door, balloons from a birthday, and packages from family. Girls with nail polish and makeup kits darted in and out of rooms. I felt like I was at a college dorm. I thought about it for a minute. When I was 18, I was at a cushiony university going to parties every night. These girls are in a barbed wire jungle. They call their mothers every night to tell them they’re alive”

      I am interested to hear feedback from people who are not blinded by their hatred of Israel. The rest of you need not apply.

      Reply to Comment
      • Weinstein Henry

        Are you interested to hear feedback from people who are also not blinded by hatred of Palestinians – especially not blinded by hatred of a 17-year-old dead teenager executed the day of his birthday, Shmuel?
        Or are you always in automatic denial mode?

        Reply to Comment
        • Shmuel

          @Henry

          I am interested in hearing from people with an open mind.

          Anyone who has not already mentally convicted this young female soldier. Nor exhonorated her.

          Either that, or if they have irrefutable proof about what actually happened without fear or favor.

          Are you such a person, Henry? If yes, I am interested in hearing from you. Otherwise, stay away from me. I am sick of all the smug internet polemicists.

          Reply to Comment
          • Weinstein Henry

            Shmuel, you might be interested to read the fair comment I made (Tuesday December 18 2012) when Noam Sheizaf posted the IDF footage on +972 – it wasn’t the first time I saw this footage, other edited versions circulating on the net.
            >http://972.com/watch-security-camera-captures-shooting-of-palestinian-teenager-in-hebron/62244/
            I agree with you that this tragic and inexplicable incident “needs to be investigated thoroughly”, because the one-sided official version does not hold water.
            I don’t understand why you accuse Greg Pollock to bring race into the discussion in a one-sidedway: Greg clearly pointed the racial (or ethnic) barrier on both sides as a permanent structural cause of tension & violence on both sides.
            But the issue here is not a general one: a young unarmed teenager has been killed by police border while presenting himself to a checkpoint, after an inexplicable clash with a soldier.
            And today, even if we don’t know a lot about what happened, we know the official one-sided version does not hold the water, but we are left with this version of the shooting as usual.

            Reply to Comment
          • Shmuel

            “Shmuel, you might be interested to read the fair comment I made”

            This is what I am interested in, Henry:

            1. Is the female soldier guilty of cold blooded murder?

            2. Is she not guilty?

            3. You don’t know.

            Where do you stand?

            Reply to Comment
          • aristeides

            How about hot-blooded murder?

            Reply to Comment
          • Weinstein Henry

            “Where do you stand?”, your words Shmuel. And you accused me and Greg Pollock to be “one-sided “smug internet polemicists” “with a single minded agenda”!!!
            I’m not under arrest, Shmuel, and I’m not in the mood to answer to your aggressive police-like questioning.
            I’m listening Lou Reed’s Walk On The Wild Side.
            I’m in a Do-Not-Feed-The-Troll mood.
            Doo DooDoo, good night.

            Reply to Comment
          • Shmuel

            @Henry

            Where did I accuse you personally of anything?

            But now I do.

            You started talking to me. I did not talk to you. So the “feeding the troll” is just your way of avoiding my reasonable question in response to your comments to me.

            You know what Henry? By doing that, you DID answer my question.

            So be my guest. Avoid talking to me. It pleases me because I don’t want to talk to polemicists.

            Enjoy your tut tutting …

            Reply to Comment
      • Philos

        I did a stint with the Border Police in 2001. They’re brutal. They’re brutalized by their own people and they’re even more brutal with the Palestinians. Your quote more than anything demonstrates the insanity that is the Magav. And being a girl in Magav is the worst. They have to work extra hard (sic, extra brutal) to prove themselves equal to the guys. Also, men and women alike, the Magav recruits from the most socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society; poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin, and kids with very poor disciplinary or scholastic records in their schools. They’re trigger happy brutes and I have always wondered what becomes of them after they finish their mandatory service…

        Reply to Comment
        • Oscar

          “I did a stint with the Border Police in 2001. They’re brutal”

          “the Magav recruits from the most socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society”

          On what basis did you qualify, Philos?

          Reply to Comment
        • Oscar

          “I did a stint with the Border Police in 2001″

          “the Magav recruits from the most socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society”

          ” I have always wondered what becomes of them after they finish their mandatory service…”

          A question and a comment Philos:

          Q: How did you get in?

          C: I hope they turn out better than you.

          Reply to Comment
          • Philos

            I was seconded from my unit to them as part of an effort to beef up their numbers whilst Operation Defensive Shield was being planned. I don’t know what your point with your comments are Oscar – although I suspect you’re another American or Brit who was too old to get into the IDF after they did Aliyah.

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            ” although I suspect you’re another American or Brit who was too old to get into the IDF after they did Aliyah”

            Nope. But it seems you are a prejudist type who has your little hate list.

            Could it be that you are guilty of the very thing that you accuse others?

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            So Philos, lets see who has made it to your little list of intolerance – prejudice so far:

            - Americans

            - Brits

            - Fellow Israelis

            - Aged people

            - socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society;

            - poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

            This was compiled based on just a couple of your posts. Did I leave anyone out Philos?

            Reply to Comment
          • Philos

            For lack of a better word – you are retarded. That Mizrachim, Russian and Ethiopian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin are socially, economically and educationally disadvantaged in Israel is a statement of fact – not prejudice. I did not claim that they are where they are because of who they are. If you knew spit about this country then you’d know that these groups have historically and continue to be discriminated against in terms of housing, employment and education. Furthermore, being “too old” for IDF recruitment post aliyah is being about 26 years old and over. Again, if you knew spit about this country you would have understood what I meant by that. I harbour no particular animus against my fellow Israelis although I do hold animus against particular Israelis. And I’ll hold my hands up to it; I thoroughly dislike the fact that Israel has become the dumping ground for all the ideologically (and otherwise) deranged wingnuts from the British and American diaspora. I am definetly not one of those “kol ha’kavod” Israelis to olim from rich countries who’ve come to play cowboys and indians with our lives. Kahanism was afterall an American import….

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            I am retarded am I Philos? Because I don’t understand what you said?

            Well then lets see what you did say about all those little groups who you said the magav recruits. You said:

            “They’re trigger happy brutes”

            So let me assure you my arrogant little elitist idiot. It makes you a very prejudiced person against the:

            - socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society;

            - poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

            Go and read Orwells animal farm. There is a character there called Napoleon, a pig, he too SAID that all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal. Recognise yourself?

            I am sure you do. Thats why I made you so angry. It isn’t good to look in the mirror that someone holds up to you, is it Philos?

            Reply to Comment
          • Philos

            The Magav are brutes. They are brutes because they are themselves brutalized. They are brutalized by society before they enter basic training and then they are brutalized in basic training. They are beaten and tortured. It is the Magav way. A middle-class Ashknasi (or Mizrachi or Russian) would not survive Magav basic training. They’ll put a bullet in their own head. So, yes, they’re brutes but not because of their nature but because of they’re very brutal nurturing.
            .
            Like I said before, anyone who knows spit about Israel knows what I am stating is fact. The Magav are the most violent of all the forces serving in the territories. The majority of criminal cases for unlawful killing (that usually go nowhere), brutality (that rarely go somewhere) and theft of property (usually cash or credit cards) tend to come from the ranks of the Magav (and lately Kfir, which is an inferior infantry regiment) rather than Tsanchanim, Givati, Golani or Nahal. Magavnikim lack the psychological temperament to get into regular infantry fighting unit. This is not prejudice, Oscar, this is the way the lishkat geyoos works.
            .
            Clearly my remarks must infuriate you because I am describing Israel to you and you are unable to countenance what I describe. Israel is a sort of caste society, your caste determined by the type of service you do, which is why Israelis who didn’t serve at all but succeeded immensely are hated. It is why the jobniks who succeed outside the army must be extra patriotic to be considered mainstream. This is the shitty Israeli reality and it sucks! No protectzia or combinot no social progression. Hell you can’t even get into the good units of the army without it. So much for meritocracy and melting pot…

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            You want to know what infuriated me, Philos? The fact that you obviously hold yourself above your fellow human beings.

            By your own admission, you served in the magav. Yet you set yourself apart from:

            - socially, educationally and economically disadvantaged sectors of Israeli society;

            - poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

            You called them “trigger happy brutes”. OK you blame the system for it. But you seem to claim that somehow you were not affected by the same system. How come? To me that does not ring true.

            You want to know what I think? I think that undoubtedly there is a grain of truth in what you say. Especially in 2001, at the height of the suicide bombing campaign by the Palestinians. I can imagine some magavniks succumbing to hate. But it does not have to be because they were brutalised. Or because of their ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds. It is because of their own make up.

            I dislike people who generalise. They are the ones who are prejudiced or even racist.

            Last word Philos. I know that like everywhere else, Israel too has racists. But I dislike people who bad mouth all Israelis and a whole institution like Zahal, just because he had some bad personal experiences and saw some bad things.

            Try and get a bit of perspective and stop being so bitter and twisted.

            Reply to Comment
          • Philos

            I was not in the magav! Good god, no. I was SECONDED to the magav for a few weeks. I ordinarily served in the army and not the border police. I did not bad mouth all Israelis. I didn’t even bad mouth the IDF (see my comments above about the superiority of certain regiments over Kfir and magav). If you don’t want to think that violence in say the African-American ghettos of the USA is more to do about socio-economics rather than “who they are” then by all means go on living in la-la-land but please don’t try to impose your reality on the facts.
            .
            That soldiers have a feeling of superiority over magav and magavnikim suffer from an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the regular army is a bloody fact of life in Israel and the security institutions. Ask a paratrooper or Golani what they think of magavnikim. You won’t hear from most of them the kind of couched analysis I have given. You’ll hear “arsim” “idiotim” “choovrah shel kushim/russim alimim”
            .
            I get it. You’re green. You’re not Israeli yet. You don’t want to either get the hell out of here or despair at all the shit around you. I get it. Enjoy the aliyah benefits my taxes and the taxes of my parents paid for you. I, nor they, got shit from the state because, like the haradeim like to say, we are secular donkeys. We pay our taxes, we go to the army, we even vote in these disgusting spectacles called elections, and everybody else profits from us – olim, haradim, settlers, and the economic oligarchy. But the TV and our politicians assure we’re not friers. When you understand what it means to be a total and utter frier your whole life; then you can safely call yourself Israeli.

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            Thank you Philos. What you said above vindicates me. If I had any doubt about you and your prejudices, you cleared it up.

            Kushim huh? Not only are you a racist but you revolve in racist circles.

            I hope anyone who reads what you say from now on will take it with the large grain of salt that it needs to be taken as.

            Reply to Comment
          • Everything Philos is saying is true – I know it, anybody who’s lived in Israel for awhile and been in the army, or even has heard and read a good deal about the army, knows it. I was in a reserve unit in Gaza serving alongside a Border Police unit, and another time I spent a month guarding the Border Police base in Gaza – yeah, everything Philos said is true.

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            But Philos said this:

            Magav recruits

            - poor Mizrachim, Ethiopian and Russian immigrants, Druze and Bedouin.

            This was compiled based on just a couple of your posts. Did I leave anyone out Philos?

            and they are trigger happy brutes.

            Let us say that they are. And I don’t agree. Why did he have to specify them in terms of ethnicity and socioeconomic background?

            I mean, Larry, brutes are brutes, whether they are rich or poor. Whether they are Mizrahim or Ashkenazim. And racists are racists too, again, no matter who they are.

            Don’t you agree Larry?

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            One more thing Larry.

            Had our Philos called the magav trigger happy brutes, I would have had an entirely different discussion with him.

            But since he found it necessary to mention that they are mostly Mizrahi, Russian, Beduin and Druze, I stand by what I say about Philos.

            He is a hypocritical elitist who thinks he is a cut above the rest. Oh and he is a bigot too.

            Reply to Comment
          • Oscar

            Really Larry? Everything Philos said is true regarding how people feel about the magav? Everybody detests the magav?

            It seems that only a few days ago you were complaining about the exact opposite. Remember this?

            http://972mag.com/the-heroine-vs-the-terrorist-a-case-study-in-israeli-brainwashing/61969/

            Your blog. ‘The Heroine vs the Terrorist’

            You were bitterly complaining about how Israeli papers and bloggers lauded the magav.

            Are you sure that you are not just talking about fellow ideologues who agree with Philos that the magavniks are trigger happy brutes of particular ethnic origins? Because if you are, that would only make ONLY those co-ideologues the racists.

            As for other Israelis, you already summed them up. They are lauding what the magav does and therefore they are NOT the racists.

            Reply to Comment
    5. The clear edit break deligitimizes the video as neutral evidence. Independent prosecuters would immediately want to know why that break is there. What I see in releasing the tape in this condition is a cavalier attitude nurtured through effective immunity from external oversight.

      “Terror” is often, although not always (consider the recent school shooting in the US) seen as purposive toward some political goal. In your land, these goals are nearly predefined by commentators of all sides and kinds. This boy one day into his 17th year might have gone amok in some way, but there is nothing to indicate political drive as, say, some Israeli newspapers imply when labeling him “terrorist.”

      I have been trying to think of underlying theses which frame the debate over violence in your land. One coming to mind from this incident and its debate is this: social causes operate only within a race; across races, all is racial warfare. So the boy’s life, his experiences and those related to him, becomes immaterial. In fact, asking what could have produced his reaction, right or wrong, is taboo. So too Shmuel, above, points to the tension and fear of Israeli Boarder Guards as, perhaps, mitigating the shooting. But across race the boy is guilty, more evidence of the latent violence housed by Palestinians, and the soldier is a hero against “terror,” being that very latent violence.

      On any account of human behavior which does not just reify race but worships it, this stance is absurd. Of course all actors in the unwanted game are subject to influcences from their past. And, if you ever really want to get out of this coffin of a reality, you are going have to examine the causes underlying your enemy.

      But I assert that there are those, on both sides, who will never permit removal of the racial barrier for the analysis of human behavior. And they are clearly having their way.

      Reply to Comment
      • Shmuel

        “So too Shmuel, above, points to the tension and fear of Israeli Boarder Guards as, perhaps, mitigating the shooting”

        That’s it? But otherwise she is guilty? Guilty of cold blooded murder?

        The difference between you and me is that I say I don’t know. I don’t know whether she is or is not because I don’t know all the facts.

        So I agree with those of you who say that this needs to be investigated thoroughly and questions need to be put and answered as much as possible.

        We may or may not arrive at a definitive answer but one needs to try. So far I agree with those of you who raise questions.

        But my agreement comes to a very sudden halt as soon as you claim at this stage that the soldier committed a crime. Because I too can think of all sorts of theoratical scenarios in which the 17 year old is totally to blame for what happened. Would you then like me to assert those theories as proven fact?

        PS
        Please don’t bring race into this discussion. Because if race is a factor for Israelis, then it is at least as much of a factor for the Palestinians. If you will persist in that, particularly if in a one sided way, only against Israelis then I will be forced to come to the conclusion that you are just one of the polemicists with a single minded agenda which has nothing to do with the quest for peace. In which case, Mr Pollock, we would have nothing more to say to each other.

        Reply to Comment
        • aristeides

          Here’s the thing, Shmuel.

          You don’t like it that people are convicting H on the basis of incomplete evidence, rushing to judgment.

          But Salaymah was both convicted and executed on the spot, which is certainly a rush to judgment.

          You want H to be fairly judged, which is fine. But Salaymah will never have the benefit of a fair judgment. Even if, should it happen, he turns out to be fully innocent – it will do him no good.

          The real guilt, then, has to be laid at the feet of the system which put them both in the position where one shot the other. If there had been no checkpoint, there would have been no death.

          Reply to Comment
          • Arieh

            “If there had been no checkpoint, there would have been no death”

            If there would not be the threat of terrorism in Israel, or even better, if there would be peace, there would not be a need to have a check point.

            Now let me guess. You will now say that there is no peace because there are settlements, Right?

            Before 1967 there were no settlements. How come there was no peace then?

            Reply to Comment
          • aristeides

            There is no peace because Palestinians have no security, no homeland, no state – because Israel has taken it all.

            cue historical reductionism

            Reply to Comment
          • Arieh

            They had no state because they did not accept the two state solution and they made war.

            They also had no state because their brother Arabs chose to take over the West Bank and Gaza instead of letting them set up a state. And the Palestinians accepted that without a murmur. They only started making waves after Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza. Go figure.

            Cue: Plain undistorted History.

            Reply to Comment
          • aristeides

            Well, Shmuel, for a person who demands the absence of polemic from others, you’re sure full of it yourself.

            Reply to Comment
          • aristeides

            My mistake – I was responding to the wrong poster.

            Reply to Comment
      • The thesis I adhere to herein is that to label this event “terrorist” is to conclude the matter. A boy amok–quite plausible, although the released video is inexplicably edited.

        I am all for independent investigation. Including the question as to why this video was brazenly edited. This editing leads me to conclude that the investigation should be outside the IDF or, at worst, external to the line of command within the IDF. I strongly expect neither will happen.

        I nowhere found the young female soldier guilty. An independent line of investigative authority does not predetermine guilt.

        Reply to Comment
        • Shmuel

          Good response Greg. What you say is reasonable.

          Reply to Comment
    6. Khaled Khalid

      I’m sure that most of the Israelis public are pleased that is one less Palestinian “Nigger” to worry about.

      And if he hated “Jews” is it surprising the Israeli Soldiers humiliating Palestinians every day happen to be Jews.
      The Nazi Soldiers happen to be German so is it surprising Jews feel strongly towards Germans?

      Reply to Comment
      • Tim

        “And if he hated “Jews” is it surprising the Israeli Soldiers humiliating Palestinians every day happen to be Jews”

        Yes. The eternal Arab obsession, honor/humiliation. Nothing else matters.

        Why don’t they sit down and negotiate? Make compromises and sign a peace deal?

        Any other people would have done that long ago. But all the Arabs worry about is honor and humiliation. Crazy.

        Reply to Comment
    7. tomakrypodari

      Watching the video in full screen, one can see small flashes coming from the area of the teenager’s right hand.
      I counted 7 of them until the point he was pushed away and shot 3 times (to me it looks like done by a single IDF soldier).
      This of course happens after the 23-24 second cut but it does look like the teenager is holding something…he makes a move, his first, as if putting/pointing an object to the soldier’s head.

      From the whole story the point I get is that the soldiers were all too eager to treat an assault on their on with deadly force, even if it was not warranted, as if the mere threat of harm is punishable by death.

      Not insulting the boy’s memory, it doesn’t look like a super smart thing to do.
      But it is all too easy to individualize incidents and de-contextualize them the daily practice of occupation and its repercussion on the lives and the state of mind of Palestinians (be it depression, emotional instability, anger, rage, indignation etc).
      The Palestinians are somehow expected to respond to this brutal suppression like a law-abiding citizen who is being asked to stop and present his ID to dutiful and law-abiding police officer.

      It’s nothing like that. The more use of the tag “terrorist” is just telling of the morbid political ideology and state of mind of many Israelis.

      Reply to Comment
    8. The Trespasser

      >The Palestinians are somehow expected to respond to this brutal suppression like a law-abiding citizen who is being asked to stop and present his ID to dutiful and law-abiding police officer.

      Not exactly.
      The brutal oppression came only as a response to Palestinian violence.

      Reply to Comment
      • aristeides

        And the Palestinian violence, naturally, came out of antisemitism, for no other reason. We’ve heard it already.

        Reply to Comment
        • Arieh

          “And the Palestinian violence, naturally, came out of antisemitism, for no other reason. We’ve heard it already.”

          Here is the thing Henry.

          The Palestinians are fiercely nationalistic. And you dudes find that sexy in them.

          But when Jews are nationalistic. You hate them for it.

          So, no, the Palestinians are not antisemitic. But you dudes are.

          Reply to Comment
          • Arieh

            My mistake too I was responding to the wrong poster.

            I meant Aristeides.

            Reply to Comment
      • Weinstein Henry

        And the occupation system, the settlements program, “came only as a response to Palestinian violence”.
        And 17-year-old Muhammad has been killed during an inexplicable incident at a military checkpoint by the police border “only as a response to Palestinian violence”.
        And “lighter guns come in all sizes”, the Palestinian ones being the size of a big “toy gun” because of “Palestinian violence”.

        Reply to Comment
        • The Trespasser

          1 – “Occupation” in terms of your beloved international law requires minimum two independent states occupied one by another. Since until very recently there was not any kind of another state besides Israel there was no occupation de-jure.

          2 – Muhammad was killed at checkpoint which was erected as a response to violence.

          Until first Intifada there was hardly any checkpoints.

          Until second Intifada no-one even thought of walls and separate roads.

          Now, you may argue that Intifadas came as a response to occupation.
          But that’s not truth of course – Intifadas were unleashed to make coexistence – the One State Solution – impossible.

          You are conveniently forgetting that the proclaimed goal goal of both Intifadas was the ending of Zionist occupation on ENTIRE Palestine, which means the destruction of state of Israel.

          >And “lighter guns come in all sizes”, the Palestinian ones being the size of a big “toy gun” because of “Palestinian violence”.

          You are seem to be not aware of the fact that firearms are very important in Arab culture.

          How many Palestinians who owned such lighter had you met in your life?

          Hmm let me guess…

          It’s Zero!

          Reply to Comment
          • directrob

            “Since 1967, Israel has been holding the areas of Judea and Samaria [hereinafter – the area] in belligerent occupation”

            Not my words …

            Reply to Comment
    9. The Trespasser

      Larry,

      >We don’t know whether the eyewitness quoted by B’Tselem was correct in saying that the border policemen saw Salaymeh approaching the checkpoint with a gun that looked real

      1 – Well, what we DO know for fact is that any armed Palestinian (leave alone Palestinian police of course) near the checkpoint – or pretty much anywhere else – must on sight be treated with the “nohal maatzar hashud” or “procedure of arrest of suspicius [person]” which ends up with the Palestinians handcuffed and probably blindfolded

      Such procedure never took place, therefore any accusations that police officers had seen the gun prior to the incident are really not that credible.

      2 – I’m not quite sure whether police would try and confiscate similar toy gun from me, should I come to ANY checkpoints, or even public places like Jerusalem central bus station or would try to board a plain anywhere in the world.

      >and either confiscated it or tried to, and that Salaymeh was shouting, “It’s mine, it’s mine” during the fight, and was either trying to grab the gun back from the border policeman or stop him from taking it.

      So if a policeman confiscates something than what you are doing is attacking him yelling “it’s mine”. Well, it’s a new word for public-police relations.

      >If the Border Police had confiscated the cigarette lighter, they would have known immediately it wasn’t a gun … and if they wanted to confiscate it because they thought it was real, they wouldn’t be standing at ease

      Version 1 – the police already took the gun and was about to confiscate it which cause Muhammad to attack him.

      Probably.

      Version 2 – Muhammad still had a gun but police knew that it is lighter.

      Nearly impossible, yet in the scope of probabilities.

      All that has to be done to prove that Muhammad was killed for entertainment purposes is to explain what exactly is in Muhammad’s right hand at 00:31.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybw9gT1oFpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=31s

      Anyway, by the law (not only Israeli) if you are using a toy gun like a real one, for instance in a robbery, you’ll be charged with armed robbery and on trial it won’t be to your benefit that the gun was not real.

      Reply to Comment
    10. Click here to load previous comments

    LEAVE A COMMENT

    Name (Required)
    Mail (Required)
    Website
    Free text

© 2010 - 2014 +972 Magazine
Follow Us
Credits

+972 is an independent, blog-based web magazine. It was launched in August 2010, resulting from a merger of a number of popular English-language blogs dealing with life and politics in Israel and Palestine.

Website empowered by RSVP

Illustrations: Eran Mendel