Comments on: Arab leaders in Israel side with consensus on African immigrants

By: david

david — Mon, 04 Jun 2012 03:49:42 +0000

The African refugees are brutalized in Egypt and every other Arab/Muslim country to which they escape. So they come to Israel where they are treated humanely. Tibi and other Israeli Arabs want the Africans to stay not for any humanitarian concern (the concept doesn’t exist for them) but to dilute Israel’s Jewish character.

Israeli Arabs – overwhelmingly fifth columnists, traitors, the enemy within.

By: sh

sh — Tue, 29 May 2012 15:57:21 +0000

Guest workers have to pay agencies to place them. They wouldn’t be allowed in if they didn’t. That’s not a claim that’s a fact.
Both Regev and Danon are Likud MKs.
As for the reasons for the fence, you might appreciate this clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1JUmexeGtY
.
But now I will make a claim. The fences are insane.

By: max

max — Tue, 29 May 2012 14:51:34 +0000

SH, how interesting that you dropped your ‘agencies’ claim.
Neither Danon nor Regev are part of the government, though Yishai is, and the government that initiated the problem was Kadima’s.
Past the governments, the next in line for responsibility are those who pushed against building the fence

By: sh

sh — Tue, 29 May 2012 14:09:00 +0000

“you claim – and presumably can prove – that the reason for the problem is ‘those Israeli agencies’,”
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I claim only one thing, Max. That the government most of the residents of south Tel Aviv voted into office, namely Likud, is responsible for their plight and that there are rules already in place to solve the problem. Several here have already pointed out that the current incitement (see Miri Regev’s and Danny Danon’s pronouncements) is coming from that same government, plus its more extreme coalition partners. Make of that what you may, but don’t attribute your pet diversions (why do you need them?) to me.

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Tue, 29 May 2012 14:02:01 +0000

One reason I mentioned Somali refugees is that Israeli perspective is that there are billions of less fortunate people who crave sneaking into their little paradise, hence they have to defend it with walls, concentration camps etc. But this is not the case. There are many disasters and crisis situation if Africa that lead to people fleeing their homes, often to other countries, but very few trek to distant countries, and actually either given a chance, they return home, or they prefer to stay in a neighbor country that has similar culture etc.

One problem that Israeli government has is that its rhetoric is hindering practical solutions. For example, one can build camps for refugees. But to do so, you have to decide what they would be. If the refugees are criminals, you need basically a concentration camp: spartan dormitories or tents, barbed wire and watch towers. It can be cheap, but it can also be a PR disaster. If they are simply refugees, you build with somewhat better standards, add some schools, activity centers and other amenities, and you do not prevent moving in and out. Diplomatically, it is much better, but it does not satisfy hateful rhetoric. Doing nothing costs less and evades the decision.

By: max

max — Tue, 29 May 2012 10:11:36 +0000

SH, let me understand: you don’t just add an irrelevant element to the discussion; you claim – and presumably can prove – that the reason for the problem is ‘those Israeli agencies’, or, in other words, that without these agencies the problem wouldn’t exist, right?

By: sh

sh — Tue, 29 May 2012 07:04:18 +0000

I didn’t insinuate anything, I said it straight. It is quite baseless and ugly (although I understand it’s a known technique) to call calling a spade a spade an insinuation.

By: max

max — Tue, 29 May 2012 04:26:01 +0000

SH, it’s quite baseless, and ugly, to insinuate that ‘those Israeli agencies’ (which I have nothing in favor of) are related to the problem.
The point with the terminology is that this also isn’t an Israeli issue; you can find this topic in the US, in the UK, in Australia… using terms like ‘Alleged illegal alien’, Pension seekers… and all terms carry a political undertone, you just can’t avoid it. In the US, for example, many refuse to use the term ‘illegal’ as no person is an illegal person.

By: sh

sh — Mon, 28 May 2012 21:26:13 +0000

@Max – “SH, immigrant has a connotation of durability,”
Not if it’s qualified by the word illegal.
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“so as nice as it sounds it adds meaning that’s not related to the situation”
I’m afraid it’s exactly the situation for those who had hoped to stay. Those who only hoped to earn a bit of money to send home are basically like what go by the name of guest workers. Legalized, they’d make a bomb for all those Israeli agencies that charge thousands of dollars for doing them the (obligatory) favor of placing them.

By: RichardL

RichardL — Mon, 28 May 2012 16:55:18 +0000

MAX Seriously I am not peddling misinformation. Can you honestly write the same?