Comments on: Lapid’s platform: No compromise over Jerusalem, no settlement freeze http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Fri, 29 May 2015 19:07:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8 By: meron http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-106480 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 10:06:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-106480 “I think that you would have a disagreement with Meron and Palestinian on that question. By their standards you can’t be native to America.”:
You think wrong, as often happens. As I wrote you plenty of times, even people whose origins are from other continents can have ALL the right to live on this land if they respect the other, if they don’t justify the colonization of the last piece of land that is in the hand of the population that until the first decade of the XX century represented the 9/10th of the total population, and, most of all, if they don’t try to claim that they have more rights then the persons that were already on the spot.
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“Strangely, you are not objecting Arab immigration to Palestine, which took place from 1890′s to 1940′s. All Arabs are automatically considered native Palestinians?”: I explained you these 1000 times.
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“Finally Trespasser – since it is obvious that you believe that ALL the land belongs to the Jews
Can’t remember myself claiming anything similar.”:
you claim this every single day, not least supporting the settlements.

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By: Devin http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-106333 Thu, 31 Jan 2013 18:19:00 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-106333 The Trespasser: you and your criminal mind made bad name for Jews. I hope one day you learn to defends Jews in correct way not with hate and not with lying . You and your criminal mind should be kept in hospital for healing.

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By: Rauna http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-106158 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:07:27 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-106158 Do they chase people out of their house to make rooms for new comers in Turkey,Egypt or Russia?

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By: Jonny http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-106151 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:36:46 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-106151 Could you point to any pragmatic element of the plan. I can’t see one.

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By: The Trespasser http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105893 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:10:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105893 >…that the only thing you are capable of in 972s comment section is insults, name calling, lying and history forging.

1 – I haven’t insulted anyone in last two posts in this thread.

I understand that you are offended by my dislike towards mentioned categories, however there is nothing I can do to help you.

2 – As a matter of fact I also refute lies; defend rights of Jewish settlers xD; study – English, history, sociology and psychology; make people show their true opinions and intentions; and last, but not least, engage in humanitarian activity ;) (the blink is relevant only to those it is relevant to)

Said above is a sufficient proof that your claims that my activity on this discussion board is of purely destructive nature is nothing more than a blatant lie and a toked of disrespect towards moderators.

3 – However I’d like to ask you – there there anything useful you’ve ever posted besides the torrent of usual fallacies and misconceptions?

>Life must be hard as a 12 year old, trying to talk to adults. Get a toy.

You are beginning your post complaining about insults just to finish it with an insult. A bit of inconsistent behavior, I have to note.

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By: Dany http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105875 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:30:46 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105875 It is so funny and laughable to see that the only thing you are capable of in 972s comment section is insults, name calling, lying and history forging.
Life must be hard as a 12 year old, trying to talk to adults. Get a toy.

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By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105862 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:43:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105862 Again, the idea that a sovereign state requires a certain level of economic development underlies your argument. It doesn’t. There were sovereign state in the Middle Ages where much of the population survived or didn’t on agriculture. There is no relation between ‘sovereignty’ and ‘economic development’. If the Palestinians can’t manage their own economy after independence that is their problem. If they want access to the Israeli market and infrastructure, then they are going to have to enter into an agreement as a sovereign state.

The restrictions on trade in the West Bank are minimal. During the second intifada there were checkpoints all over the place. Now the vast majority of these are gone. The economic problems in the PA derive from political decisions made by their leaders to build a centralized ‘state’ financed by foreign aid.

As to the ‘nakba’. There is no single narrative in Israeli media. There are no gatekeepers that would prevent other narratives from showing up. Israeli television news programs are dominated by leftists and leftists and Arab MKs are common guests. You have no idea what you are talking about probably because you can’t speak the language or watch Israeli television. Yet you pretend to speak from authority.

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By: Gearoid http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105771 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:45:21 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105771 Yeah, interbreeding was fairly common. Though, to be fair, the Hebrews were Aramaicized even during the period of the Temple, it just sped up significantly both during the Captivity and afterwards under Persian rule (after the Persians adopted Aramaic as the official language for government in the Levant). But as far as self-identifying groups go, most of the urban areas were Hellenized and under Byzantine control.

I sense sarcasm, but that was better treatment than any minority could expect in the ancient world. The Persians were very open minded religiously, but they were very much the exception. Heck, even the ancient Hebrews, especially in Judah were quite nasty to their own minorities. So I wouldn’t be too snarky. The preamble notes that was better than most non-Christians in Europe at the time, and certainly better than the Jews were under the Byzantines.

Judging history by modern views of morality is a fools errand. They teach us not to do that.

How many Jews? I have no idea. I’m not aware of any censuses from the period (Byzantine history isn’t my thing, and what I’ve dabbled in tended to be either earlier or later than this period. The Comneans are fascinating). Moreover, seeing as the Levant was in a constant state of war for decades before that, both with the Samaritan revolts (which sometimes included Jews) and the Persian wars, I doubt an accurate count was kept.

I don’t know about the 1500s. Outside my period generally. From what I know the population was small and confined to urban areas, but I couldn’t give you numbers.

I’m not a statistician, but I can tell you that is not an effective method whatsoever. You can’t average out population decrease. It depends on too many variables. The economy, peace/war, societal pressures, drought/famine, relative freedom or persecution, assimilation into other cultures, etc. I doubt you could come up with an accurate rate for just one area, let alone in general. It’s too big of a question.

Archaeological evidence suggests the Jewish population was always fairly low, even when Judah was an independent state. It shrunk under the Assyrians and Persians. It rebounded under the Romans, even assuming 1/10th of the numbers Josephus reports (which are way too large) the population was large enough to absorb the loss of up to 100,000 people. The rural community maintained itself, though over the centuries there was significant attrition due to continued revolts and Roman and Byzantine cultural dominance. My guess, and it’s nothing but a guess, is you might have been talking about 50,000 Jews tops in the 7th century in the region we’re discussing. Mostly a spread out rural population, without much cohesion.

But I guarantee it was not in the 350,000 range. That would be more likely to be the total population of the region than anything else.

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By: The Trespasser http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105751 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:11:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105751 Is there a hope that sometime you write something which is not plain silly?

“SO that must make you one of these self-hating jews, everyone is talking about.”

You see, one can’t realize that one is an idiot and a liar and at the same time remain such – only competent are able to realize the boundaries of their incompetency, while stupid and ignorant think that they are right simply because they can’t realize that they actually could be wrong.

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By: The Trespasser http://972mag.com/lapids-platform-no-compromise-over-jerusalem-no-settlement-freeze/64847/comment-page-1/#comment-105748 Mon, 28 Jan 2013 04:01:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=64847#comment-105748 >Obviously most of them would have culturally been Hellenized or Aramaicized, but genetically could have been Hebrews.

After all, nearly 600 years had passed since the destruction of the temple, region was multiple times devastated by wars and population probably included most mentioned ethnicities interbred to some extent.

>Ironically, it was the Muslims that allowed Jews back into the city for the first time in centuries.

A wonderful time it was.
” We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.”
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.asp

>Hope that helps a bit.

Every bit of useful information helps.

What is lacking now is information of how many Jews actually were in Palestine circa 637 C.E.

Is is said that in 1500′s there were about 5000 Jews in Palestine. Do you find this number correct?

If we speak about population decrease of 0.5% per year (for the sake of experiment), how many Jews where there 1000 years before that?
1500 5000
1499 5025

638 368227
637 370068

Excel formula used: B2=B1*1.005

Is there any data on average population decrease rates in similar conditions?

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