63 comments for ”Knesset bill would formalize second-class status for Arab citizens“

    
  1. @Sylvia,
    I do not understand your position, of course Arabic as spoken by the Palestinian Israeli should be an official language of Israel. All official documents should be written in Hebrew and Arabic. Public officials should be sufficiently fluent in Arabic and Hebrew. If for no other reason it makes it easier to understand each other.

  2. 
  3. @Directorb – I read your article about the Romany of Europe. It confirms the opinion that I hold. There is a lot of hot air in the European court but nothing practical happens on the ground. The plight of the Romany people in Europe is ongoing. By the way, Arabs can also take their case allthe way to the supreme court of Israel. Sometimes they win their case, sometimes they lose.

    As to your question whether I agree with the new law or not. I don’t really know. I can see the intent behind it but I can also see the harm that can happen from taking something away that is already there. I can certainly see the opportunity that has been handed to those who want to demonise Israel.
    Is it discriminatory though? If you think that other countries like France who have only one official language are discriminating against their Arab and Basque minorities, then you could argue likewise against Israel. Otherwise, NO!

  4. 
  5. @bosko
    The influence of the human rights court is much higher than you suggest. In Western Europe it is the highest court and the rulings change state law. The case of Roma in eastern Europe show things are not perfect but even there things are moving. Like Israel when the state refuses to implement court rules there is something really wrong with the state.
    .
    The situation of the 52000 Basque speaking persons might not be perfect but they have a “regional” language. The one million Arabic speaking French are a different case. They came to France to become French. They want their children to become French speaking.

  6. 
  7. I’m always sooooo moved by Israelis who’re concerned by the situation of the Arabs in France. Comparing France with Israel is just totally out of place. The Arabs of France are not an indigenous population who have been colonized by foreign settlers on their own land. Not in France at least. That did happen in Algeria and elsewhere, but thanks to God and particularly the Algerian resistance, they got rid of French colonialism.
    We know the Basques, and a few weeks ago Max with his ‘Corsicans’ are just a red herring, but if Bosko is really interested, I could probably find a few blogs where he could debate about the minorities in France.
    If he’s interested in the Arab/African minority in France and their fight for equality, I suggest http://www.indigenes-republique.fr/ but they’re VERY pro-Palestinian !

  8.  
  9. @Directorb – “The case of Roma in eastern Europe show things are not perfect but even there things are moving”
    “The situation of the 52000 Basque speaking persons might not be perfect but they have a “regional” language”
    And the situation in Israel is not perfect but it is a country that has been in war with it’s neighbours for nearly 100 years. It is the only country that has it’s very existence questioned and threatened. And there is no other country for the Jewish people (as in nation, not religion because most Israelis are secular).
    So Israel is not a perfect society but it isn’t the demon that many on these blogs are making it out to be. It most definitely is not the worst transgressor either, for that, you might want to look at places where the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Ayatolahs rule.
    You want to criticise Israel? Go ahead. But keep things in perspective and be proportionate. Like you admit, things are not perfect even in France and the Romany in Europe. I agree and there are much worse places than Israel too. Please don’t ask me to list them because I don’t have enough room in the window of this blog!

  10. 
  11. @Directorb – Oh by the way, the Arab citizens of Israel may have reasons to complain. But then again most Arabs in most Arab countries too have reasons to complain and they have been complaining too recently in places like Libya, Syria and many other Arab countries.
    I guess those places are not perfect either and quite often, the Arab citizens of Israel are treated by Israel than the Arab citizens of Arab countries.
    That’s not an excuse. It’s just putting things in perspective Directorb.

  12. 
  13. @ Noam
    The French ban that you mentioned in your article from April 2010 is NOT a ban on the burqa/Niqab, but ALSO on the veil/hijab.
    In fact, the law from 2004 bans ALL distinctif religious signs in the public school system – also the kippa and the Christian cross (in theory) just as the Sikh turban that Sikhs themselves consider ‘cultural’ and not ‘religious’:
    http://en.wikipidia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools
    Due to a long history of interreligious frictions in France – fortunately neither Jews nor Muslims were involved :-) – it was an inter-Christian matter: Catholics against Protestants, France has an extremely secular constitution.
    The Niqab/Burqa was banned in ALL public places in April 2011
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/11/france-begins-burqa-niqab-ban
    By the way, a French Jews was asked to take off his kippa in court somewhere in Southern France a coupls of month ago, the judge was only applying the law.

    In the name of the ‘vivre ensemble’ (living together), the secular standpoint has maybe been pushed too far – my personal feelings are ambivalent on this topic – but it has nothing to do with the Israeli situation, giving more and more space to Jewish religious and cultural expression all while trying to limit Palestinian cultural and/or religious freedom.

    By the way, I’m amazed by Solokin’s description of Southern France and the multitude of niqabs, she saw there. It must have been all the tourists from Saudi Arabia and the Golf States. I live in the most multi-ethnic neighbourhood in Paris, and I’ve seen two or three niqabs here in 10 years.

  14. 
  15. @Deir Yasin – I know that what I am about to say is a bit off topic but I can’t resist saying it. On another blog, when I used Wikepedia as a reference, to outline the ill treatment and persecution of Mizrahi Jews in various Arab countries, you tut tutted and scoffed at me and pretended that my source was somehow suspect. And what do I find you using in your above post? None other than Wikipedia. Well, I am shocked. I say, I am shocked :) A slight case of double standard on your part yet again, wouldn’t you say? mmmmmmm?

  16. 
  17. @ Bosko
    The wikipedia page that I posted is about ONE law – a very factual matter – and I only posted in to ‘prove’ that it was a general law on ALL religious signs in the public school system in France, and not only the Muslim headscarf.
    http://www.hlrecord.org/news/french-secularist-defends-country-s-ban-on-religious-items-in-schools-1.937771
    Whereas you posted a wiki-entry on ‘the exodus of the Jews in the Arab world’ with two lines – and containing wrong informations – about the Algerian Jews which were the subject.

    And then I don’t think there’s a whole army of propagandists intervening on wikipedia describing factual French laws as there is on subjetcs related to Jewish/Arab relations, in Palestine or elewhere:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52LB2fYhoY
    You could also look up CAMERA, the ultra-zionist organization, and it’s various attemps to place it’s members on ‘wiki’ boards of editor. See ‘sourcewatch’ for exemple.
    Or maybe start reading serious stuff like this guy:
    http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S29/67/50S83/index.xml?section=featured

  18. 
  19. @Noam:

    If I’m not mistaken that bill was rejected. Am I right?

  20.  
  21. @Deir Yassin – Yes, we know. Any source that contradicts your cosy little world view is suspect or wrong. But when it supports what you want to say is OK.
    For your information, my source was not wrong either. It outlined the treatment meted out to Mizrahi Jews in various Arab countries, including Algeria, and although I chose Wikipedia as my source, there are live witnesses in Israel who testify to what happened to them. You can be in denial all you like …



Leave a comment