23 comments for ”Justice eludes activist, father of Palestinian child killed by IDF“

    
  1. amen.

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  3. Back in August 2010 when an Israeli judge ruled that Abir had indeed been shot dead by a border policeman, and that the killing was “totally unjustifiable”, his father said this:
    “I have worked night and day for 3 1/2 years to prove that they killed Abir …but I never lost hope because I don’t want that one day my son will avenge the death of his sister”.
    I hope Bassam Aramin will find a way to convince his son, now that we’ve seen once again that Israeli justice as far as Palestinians are concerned is just empty words.

    http://smpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/abiraramin.jpg

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  5. You are a testament to humanity, Bassam. May we all have such strength in our quest for justice.

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  7. I’m very sorry for your loss. There is no greater tragedy than for a parent to bury a child.

    +972 should have provided a good editor for the piece. It is so emotional that it’s incoherent and badly written; I had to search for news sources to find out what actually happened. James Joyce could have written a more coherent article.

    You present one side of the debate as the absolute truth, when in reality there is debate about what happened. There was a small riot at the time against the arrival of a group of officers, not an organized anti-occupation protest (which would have been covered by the media as usual, though there is no covered of Abir’s death). There is no evidence that there were any shots fired at all, even rubber bullets. All evidence points to the likelihood that Abir was killed by stray rock thrown by another Palestinian child. It’s a tragedy to be sure, and most likely would not have happened without the occupation, but it looks like Israeli soldiers are not directly responsible for this.

    I wish you peace. May G-D comfort you in your time of grief.

  8. 
  9. @ Bryan
    You’re simply the most disgusting person I’ve read for a very long time. Go to H… !!!

    Your
    “There is no evidence that there were any shots fired at all, even rubber bullets. All evidence points to the likelihood that Abir was killed by stray rocks thrown by another Palestinian child”

    You have the chutzpah to write that s… !! to Bassam Aramin who lost his beautiful little daughter all while pretending you’re sorry.
    Look at the photo I linked to further up.

    If you’d taken two minutes to google informations, you’d known what everyone who has followed this case knows.
    “… Jerusalem District Court ruled she was killed by a rubber bullet by Border Guard officers during a riots”
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4093294,00.html

    A collegue to the Border Guard in question testified that bullets were fired, and just in case you have the chutzpah to show up here again, Abir Aramin was not rioting !! She was walking down the street on her way home from school with her sister and a friend, I think. Not even near to the stone-throwing kids.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bassam-aramins-search-for-justice-2055355.html

    If you’re genuinely interested, Richard Silverstein had written various articles about Abir Aramin and her father’s fight for justice.

    Shame on you, and if it weren’t for the moderators I would tell you what I really think of you !

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  11. @Omar said it perfectly. You are the bravest kind of warrior for peace there is, and I’m so terribly sorry that your heart is being tested so. No wonder David Grossman is at your side; he is one, too. Combatants for Peace, which we owe to you, and Bereaved Parents/Families, which I’m so sorry you must count yourself among, are two of the most remarkable organizations I know of, anywhere. Leonard Cohen, when giving a moving performance here in Tel Aviv, called yours a “holy, holy, holy response to human suffering”. I hope everyone will watch this beautiful performance, and tribute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGu3SLzTKU8.

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  13. Bryan, every single thing you wrote in your comment is incorrect. There is no debate whatsoever about how Abir was killed. The lawyers representing Bassam Aramim and his wife proved to the court beyond any doubt that the border guards shot wildly in a densely populated civilian area, near a school (Abir’s school) where there was no danger to their lives and no stones being thrown. The forensic evidence is indisputable, and has been fully accepted by the court.

    Your comment about Mr. Aramim’s writing style is gratuitous and untrue. Most of the native speakers who comment on this blog could use some lessons in style and grammar from him.

    The next time you write a mendacious comment for the sake of furthering your political agenda or being provocative, it will be deleted by moderators.

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  15. @Bryan… you are the same Bryan who just posted on the fb thread that your entire family was killed by the IDF? If so, I truly can’t believe you could post this, knowing how hard it is to hear anything but how sorry someone is for your loss, let alone an uninformed denial of what so obviously happened (I’ve followed this story for a while in the news. plus, a rubber bullet is pretty solid evidence). Also, I think I know who you are, and that your tragic loss was a result of a car accident with an army vehicle? That makes your loss no less tragic, but the circumstances quite different. I agree with @Deir–shame on you. And as for how the op ed is written, in what is probably the author’s third language, are you effing kidding me? I’m a writer, and that never crossed my mind while I was reading, plus the way you expressed this was downright insulting. In this context… I’m shocked. I pray that Bassam Aramin has been in this insane conflict long enough to know how to ignore you, and that his faith in humanity has been so thoroughly tested already that your stunning insensitivity can only make him feel compassion for you.

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  17. The courts, who have studied all the evidence, found that the Israeli military were the killers. Bryan seems to think that pumping out Zionist propaganda that presents no new credible evidence will advance his cause. All Bryan’s propagandist views have previously been presented to the courts and dismissed in their entirety. Bryan, by repeating those invalidated assertions shows that he has not one shred of a balanced perspective nor do his mouthing have any passing resemblance to reality.

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  19. The High Court, at least this panal of it, is afraid of the IDF. The trigger finger is undoubtedly lost. If the High Court ordered or sanctioned a criminal investigation, local command and control would have to be the focus, which would merge with IDF standard procedures. The IDF will not allow the High Court to determine military procedure; indeed, the IDF has ignored previous Court orders to ban certain acts, such as using human shields to first enter a house before troops do.
    ———————–
    The IDF is something of an autonomous branch of the government once orders for engagement are given, and the occupation is essentially a collection of standard active orders. But this is true of most militaries, including that of the United States. What could the High Court realistically do? Enable the equivalent of a constitutional tort against the State of Israel for damages; such a tort would likely end up for review in the High Court, which would determine compensation. But the principle of a civilian trial against the State would then have greater precedent. The internal travails of Israel have been so tramatic for so long that the IDF is slowly establishing a lawless area for itself, controlled only by the logic of national defense.
    ————————–
    The father of this child is right, I think, about the misuse of the merit of others’ deaths. There are two lessons from the Holocaust: never again for my people; and not now, for this act before me, not now, no matter the victim, the perpetrator. The former has crushed the latter. Once stance on these two seems to determine much if not most reader commentary we see posted onto +972.

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  21. @LISA/BASSAM
    Do either of you have a link to a copy of the Judge’s opinion, in English? I’ve read some Israeli court opinions before in English, but they had scholarly significance w/r/t international law, so it seems maybe they translate some and not others.

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  23. RichardNYC,
    Go to the offical High Court site. I have the link stored somewhere, but just google on “Israel Supreme Court.” They have taken to translating many of their opinions and posting them. But this one may be too fresh for that.

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  25. The worst affect of @Bryan’s comment is that, once again, here we are having a response–the same old blind, stuck, hard-wired, boring response– to an essay that not only has nothing, really to do with what we are discussing, but is exactly about the courage it takes NOT to be reactive, to turn to us vs. them, to close one’s heart in the face of the worst kind of tragedy (losing a child. to a conflict that already oppresses you. and to have justice denied despite all evidence). Those of you questioning the evidence on this case (which you can easily look up yourselves) may as well be accusing a young rape victim of possibly, just possibly, asking for it. But more than anything, aren’t you tired? There are no angels in this conflict (except, possibly, Bassam Aramin). We all have blood on our hands, to use one of this week’s favorite media expressions. Please, please, please, break out of the recording and listen to what is being said right here, right now, by a man devoting his life to not slipping into such easy, numb, ego-filled grooves. As for @Bryan, I actually woke up thinking about you, which is why I signed on. You lost two children and your wife this past year–and you shared this information publicly on the fb thread on this essay, so I feel free to bring it in. The car accident was near where I live, and we have mutual friends (friends whose politics are so extremely and radically left–whose favorite expression is “destroy all the weapons, erase all the borders”, that I find it difficult to believe you’re pushing a pro-israel agenda here). I find it more possible to believe that you are in a tremendous amount of pain, and that for some reason, faced with Bassam Aramin’s unspeakably brave and open-hearted response to his loss, you’re responding with insidious anger. I mean this utterly sincerely: I hope you are getting a lot of help and support to get through your shocking and tragic loss. And I pray that through your honest grief, you, too, will experience expanded open-heartedness. Take care.

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  27. ‘effect’. not ‘affect’. the worse effect… In trying to learn what will be only my second language, I seem to be left with none for the moment. In admiration of all those who cannot only speak, but write, in three.

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  29. @Greg Pollack–thank you.

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  31. The Court Ruling that Abi Aramin had indeed been shot by the Border Police is from August 17th 2010. More informations in the Independent-article I linked to further up.

    For people who want to see what a beautiful person Bassam Aramin is:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMzJO9kqACM
    http://www.youtube.cim/watch?v=xhZ3CJFgc5w

    And he has friends of the higest human quality too:
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/i-am-bassam-aramin-1.243374
    And Rami’s wife:
    http://electronicintifada.net/content/let-our-children-live/6694

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  33. Sorry second link, once again:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZ3CJFgc5w

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  35. Ayla,
    We humans tend to think we have won when we bash others into silence. This tendency is the saddest thing I see in +972 comments. I have succumbed to it too. We especially want to quash those who refuse to live in “us” and “them.” I have been watching the Palestine conflict for over 30 years. I have come to wonder if civilization is not being tested there, tested to see if we can somehow amend our views of “us” and “them,” what an “us” is, what a “them” is. To open the fist which has driven history. That is the quest for human rights. No side wins through that quest. You have to be ready to defend your sworn enemy. I won’t be there, part of that. Maybe you will.
    And if English is your second language you are very good at langagues. Greatest tool in the fight.

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  37. @greg–sorry I was unclear; English is my first language, and I feel myself losing it as I try to learn Hebrew, I’m forgetting English, which is probably some kind of a good sign for the ways I’m seeing things more from the inside than the outside (I would also love to learn Arabic, but I don’t have the confidence for both, and, sadly, Hebrew covers more ground among Palestinians than Arabic does among Israelis, so I cover more ground this way). I’m not sure I’m following you on everything exactly, but I like where you’re coming from, generally. Yes–the “us” and “them”-ers are on the rise, and so are the open-hearted, and it is a sort of test of good and evil in a way that I feel is coming to a head, particularly on this sliver of land, and this part of the world. There is no us and them, really, and I since I know this, I have no sworn enemies. That said, since this is earth, I take responsibility for the fact that I’m a Jewish American who has Israeli citizenship, and with that comes a responsibility to fight for Palestinian rights, including the right to return. As for silencing people on these comment threads, which are often quite toxic (and anonymous for many) there is a certain level of insensitivity that goes beyond having different ideology that someone may feel is hurtful (for example, Ben Israel and I each believe the other’s views and actions are hurting the greater good) to a point that it is downright abusive; there are times when not silencing the abuse is like standing by and witnessing a violent crime while doing nothing. Sometimes, that abuse may be unknowing, such as Bryan’s, here, in which case I am sympathetic, but it can’t be tolerated. The only kind of “winning” I hope to achieve by commenting here to connect with people I might not otherwise have the opportunity to discuss these issues with, and to learn by listening, both to the bloggers and the commenters, and by learning, to open my own heart, and to urge others, who come here purely to spout pre-conceived rhetoric (not Bryan; others) to do the same. I once observed you encouraging Ben Israel to feel free to be himself here in coming from a religiously-motivated place, and I was moved by that. If we all speak from our hearts, and not from rhetoric, we become human to each other, and even if we will never agree, there’s great value in this.

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  39. I haven’t looked at this thread since posting. First, I should say that I’m not the Bryan who posted about losing his family to the IDF. Mr. Aramin’s article is confusing; I read it twice before I posted, and again since the strong reaction to my comments. This is not his fault; the editors of +972 should have made it more coherent and additionally provided some background on the topics presented. I searched for an read many articles full of conflicting information about this case (so contra Lisa’s point, there is at least *some* debate about what happened). I thank those who provided informative links on this case.

    It appears that the criminal court (where the evidentiary rules are more stringent, requiring evidence beyond a reasonable doubt) ruled against the Aramin’s while a civil court (with evidentiary rules of a preponderance of evidence) rule in their favor.

    Once again, I express my condolences to the Aramin family. And, now that I have more background on Mr. Aramin, I applaud peace activism and hope that peace comes soon to Israel and Palestine.

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  41. @ Bryan
    I’m very happy that you’re not the Bryan who lost his family in that tragic car accident. Inspired by Ayla’s comment, I did a little research, and was very saddened by what happened to that other Bryan, and seeing that he’s a progressive, who has worked with the Alternative Information Center and many joint Israeli-Palestinian organizations, I was very astonished that he could react as you did, and not be aware of this very well-known case. So I’m relieved you’re not this obviously beautiful person who turned mean in his sorrow.

    English is not my native language neither my first foreign language, and still I had absolutely NO problems understanding Bassam Aramin’s article. There is an introduction by Aziz Abu Sarah, and then Bassem’s article starts. It’s clear to everyone not wearing ‘blinkers’. But then if you had a preconceived opinion before even starting ….

    CF. Lisa’s point: no, there is absolutely NO debate about what happened ! Just read the newest articles on the case instead of commenting on three years old Court decisions….

    The end of the story is that you commented here, basically saying that Bassem Aramin was lying about the tragic death of his little daughter. Your ‘hit by a stray stone thrown by another Palestinian child’ is pure Hasbara, and was abandoned early even in the IDF narrative. All the results coming up in English when you google Abir Aramin tell you so. Even Ynetnews, not really pro-palestinian ordinarily.
    “Now that I have more background on Mr Aramin”, you write. Well, it’s all mentioned at the bottom of the article. Never made it that far ?

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  43. okay, first and foremost, I owe the other Bryan a big apology for linking him to this Brian’s comments, and I’m grateful to this Bryan for signing back on and clearing that up. Deir covered the rest so I don’t have to say much else; I’m especially grateful, too, that this isn’t a story about a “beautiful person who turned mean in his sorrow,” as Deir so beautifully put. I’ll only add that it seems really interesting to me that after never seeing the name “Bryan” in comment threads here, we had two different Bryans, both spelled that way (not the only way), on this essay, meaning only that the confusion doesn’t seem to be completely meaningless. For me, it goes to show how most people become somewhat sympathetic when you know there story. I was dead wrong about this Bryan’s story, but I’m sure he has a story, as we all do. This is where the news fails us. Thanks everyone.

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  45. ‘their’, not ‘there’. sigh. :) . oh well: make way for new languages.



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