Comments on: Group of J14 activists to refuse their military reserve duty

By: The Solar-Powered Self-Immolator « radicalmonkeyclown

The Solar-Powered Self-Immolator « radicalmonkeyclown — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 15:43:03 +0000

[...] fire the former night at the social justice demonstration in Tel Aviv. It sparked angry protests, a new initiative of socio-economic reserve service army refuseniks and a wave of (as of now) unsuccessful self-immolators. Summer is hot as hell in these parts. I [...]

By: Joel

Joel — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:02:58 +0000

@ALBIN: I agree with you, except that I would say, “ISRAELI (not Jewish) liberation will come only when Palestinian liberation has come as well.”

By: Palestinian

Palestinian — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:00:27 +0000

Defend a state ? so they believe by joining the IDF they are “defending” their state ?!

By: Martine Kleinberg

Martine Kleinberg — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:25:48 +0000

Great! Courageous! Politically right! How can human rights activists in Europe support the movement for social justice and a just peace?

By: Doreen Said

Doreen Said — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:18:19 +0000

@ALBIN: I completely agree with you. in order for there to be a democratic state based on equality, the Palestinian- Israeli conflict must be resolved. A democratic state should not have second class citizens of any sort (economically, politically, socially).

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 05:23:19 +0000

XYZ,
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Refusing conscription, ready to pay the penalty rather than flee, is not identical to refusing an order; nor is it always the case that those refusing orders are wrong. In the case of evicting (that’s what it was) the Gaza settlements, you likely know religious soldiers, stating their objections, were not used.
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As to protection, there are many kinds of protection. I cannot say Tamar is right or wrong on his view of things. But it is clearly true that a State may protect its borders while neglecting its citizens. Your use of “the rest of us” at end implies there is only one “us.” I do not know if J14 will lead anywhere, but the issue under contention is exactly that there is not just one “us.” Patriotism may be used to destroy. Free Speech looks for alternatives. Civil disobedience is free speech at offered personal risk to the speaker.

By: XYZ

XYZ — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 04:46:09 +0000

So Tamar is doing exactly like the soldiers who refuse to carry out orders to destroy Jewish settlements….they are soldiers who will serve ON CONDITION that the state carries out the policies what they want. The problem is that serving in the military is NOT SERVING “THE STATE”. That is an old idea that was popular in Europe before World War II but which is now largely discredited, for obvious reasons. It is protecting the population. If Tamar thinks that the population does not need protection because of the policies of the National Insurance Institute don’t find favor in his eyes, then he has a very different view of reality than the rest of us.

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:11:42 +0000

There is a distinction between equal duties and civil disobedience against the State; one can adhere to both. Tamar has declared the social contract fails; he proclaims publicly he will not serve next mobilization call, thereby exposing himself and his family (he has a child) to social and economic risk. As I have said elsewhere on this site, I am no fan of the military at all; but I also know militaries will never go away in several lifetimes to come. Tamar’s stand is not against military service as such; as he says, he has always felt, until now, that he had a duty to serve the State which served all. If this move is cast as anti military as such it will obviously fail. Instead of deciding the equal duty folks are rightist monsters, one can frame this as a common thrust, employing different means, to a goal of social equality. I do not think the populace will switch to his pricipled position over all, but that is often not necessary for effect.
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“When you hear of someone capable of doing such a thing you can’t help realizing the depth of the pit a person has to fall into to do such a thing, to actually burn oneself, and you see how no one really cares. That’s when I decided I won’t serve a state that doesn’t protect its citizens. I love the people here, and I fight for them, not for some institution or for lands. If the state breaks its end of the social contract – I will break mine”
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A remarkable, concise position. New voices can emerge.
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“There are also local traditions of young people in the lower classes, who avoid military service in quiet protest against government policies. Many of them have spent long periods in prison.”
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I know I am pedantic, but there is a story there, methinks.
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You’re not likely to change the world, but may make a new space for the future. You’ll be repressed for that–which tells how valuable the space would be.

By: Kolumn9

Kolumn9 — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:08:13 +0000

This isn’t going to be a very effective campaign. Many people presume that most of the left-wing activists don’t bother to show up for miluim anyway. This will just confirm that impression while having no real impact on anything. It is a blatant rejection of the dominant consensus and is another action that will drive away the main stream.

By: albin

albin — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 02:37:16 +0000

When will J14 wake up and refuse to serve in the military because of the oppression of the Palestinians? This Jew in the United States, and much of the rest of the world that is rising up is waiting for you all to confront the real issue: the oppression of our Palestinian brothers and sisters. Ask yourself, what is the government spending money on instead of housing and social welfare policies? The occupation is the answer.

Zionism has reached a point in history where Jewish liberation will come only when Palestinian liberation has come as well. They share the holy land with us, we must recognize them and respect them. It makes me sad to say this but until that is done the J14 movement will accomplish nothing.