When I talked about 20% of Israel’s citizens who are Arab (over one million people), those are their numbers TODAY.

So do your math. In 1947/48, their numbers would have been much lower.

Why do I say that? Because logistics had nothing to do with why they are still in Israel. If the Jews had a central policy of expulsion, those Palestinians would have been expelled in 1947/48. And today, Israel would not have over one million Arab citizens. Those are the facts Andrew. And mo matter how much you try to spin, twist and turn the facts, you can’t change facts.

“The video focuses on an interview with Hazem Nusseibeh, a member of one of Jerusalem’s most prominent Arab families. In 1948 he was an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service’s Arabic news.

In this interview with the BBC he admits that in 1948 he was instructed by Hussein Khalidi, a prominent Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin in order to encourage Arab regimes to invade the expected Jewish state. He made this damming admission in explaining why the Arabs failed in the 1948 war. He said “this was our biggest mistake”, because Palestinians fled in terror and left the country in huge numbers after hearing the atrocity claims.

Nusseibeh describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem’s Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi… ‘I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,’. He said, “We must make the most of this. So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities”

In the video clip Abu Mahmud, who was a Dir Yassin resident in 1948, told the BBC that the villagers protested against the atrocity claims: We said, “There was no rape. But Khalidi said, We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews.”

This false press statement was released to New York Times correspondent, Dana Schmidt leading to an article in the New York Times on April 12, 1948, claiming that a massacre took place at Deir Yassin that was reprinted worldwide and cited even in Israel as proof of Israeli atrocities

Dr. Hazem Nusseibeh was a representative of Jordan at the Mixed Armistice Commission and he was Minister of Foreign Affairs.He was also the Permanent Ambassador of Jordan to the UN and has authored several books, including The Ideas of Arab Nationalism, Palestine and the United Nations and A History of Modern Jordan.

http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/deir_yassin.html

One, I suggested two posts ago some reasons why any Palestinians remained in the Green line. Another possible reason is that for the IDF, making sure refugees didn’t return (or infiltrate as Morris would have it) back across the armistice line was a full-time job. The resources to expel every last individual were probably not available. In some cases like Iqrit (A Christian village) they were content with removing the villagers from the border. The village was depopulated in late 1948 but not demolished until 1951, suggesting that lack of equipment was the main factor in holding back (my speculation).

But expulsions out of Palestine still continued after the armistice with the Arab states: the Faluja pocket, Ashkelon and the DMZ with Syria.

“The fact that there are 1 million Arab citizens, 20% of Israel’s population, shows that there was no centralised policy of expulsion implemented.”

Or it was partly a logistical failure. Israel’s policies vis-a-vis its Arab citizens are very telling in that department.

“I think the real deterrent is the possibility of armed conflict with Syria (pre-2011), Egypt and Jordan should Israel attempt more expulsions out of pre-1948 Palestine.”

I think you both missed my question and mistimed your timeline.

We were talking about 1947/48. I asked you why didn’t the Jews expell ALL the Palestinian Arabs at that time? If there was a policy of expulsion that is?

An invasion by Syria snd Egypt would hardly have been a deterrent because they already DID invade. And all the other refugees did flee/were expelled in 1947/48.

So how come those particular Palestinian Arabs didn’t or weren’t expelled?

It does not matter how long it took. Had there been a POLICY of expulsion, they would not have even stayed within the green line. They would have been EXPELLED!!! Are you unable to comprehend that?

The fact that there are 1 million Arab citizens, 20% of Israel’s population, shows that there was no centralised policy of expulsion implemented.

Were there expulsions by individual commanders? Yes. As there were also expulsions of Jews from many Arab countries and even in Palestine where the Arabs got the upper hand in the fighting.

No Andrew, Morris does not bore me. Your interpretation of what he says is beginning to bore me.

Remember how our discussion started? I agreed with Larry that both parties had historical reaons to be discontented. I said that neither side can consider themselves to be knights in shining armour.

But I remindid him that the choice of war was made by the Palestinians – Arabs and their allies. Not the Jews, who accepted UN resolution 181.

You took exception to that. And you brought in Morris to try and prove me wrong. But the only thing that you managed to do is to selectively point to things that Israel can be criticised for in hindsight. At the same time you omitted all context and acted as if the Paelestinian Arabs did nothing wrong and pretended that they were the only victims.

The problem with your approach is that you selectively quote Morris (as does the Guardian). But Morris is much more balanced in his account. Firstly, he does not agree with you that there was a centrally coordinated policy of expulsion. Secondly, he backs up what I said about who initiated this conflict. Thirdly, he puts a context to what happened in the conflict and in all such conflicts. Fourthly, he lays a greater blame on the Arabs as to why this conflict has been protracted. I’ll stop there for now.

So please tell me what are you driving at? To me this conflict is not black and white. But it seems to me that according to you, the Palestinian Arabs are just pure victims who haven’t done anything to contribute to this tragedy. Yes, a tragedy for both peoples.

If you keep this approach up, I’ll copy your tactics and will copy and paste a litany of wrongs that the Palestinian Arabs perpetrated against Israelis. And I can point to Arabs admitting mistakes that they made which contributed to the refugee problem too, if you want me to.

Ok this post is already too long.

“If you dispute what he said then why bring him up as a referee?”

Because he did original research and when you make arguments based on secondary information it’s a good idea to cite the source. Plus he reported facts that anyone who wants to intelligently discuss the conflict needs to know. That doesn’t mean I have to concur with all his value judgements. And the fact remains that he makes comments in public that downplay his own research, including that quote from Ha’aretz you keep pushing.

“You also did not respond to my question about the fact that 20% of Israel’s cotizens are Arabs.”

You seem to ignore my explanation that it took 30 years for all Palestinians remaining in the Green line to get Israeli citizenship. As to why Israel doesn’t expel its 20% Arab minority, I think the real deterrent is the possibility of armed conflict with Syria (pre-2011), Egypt and Jordan should Israel attempt more expulsions out of pre-1948 Palestine.

“Yes, Morris, your referee says that too. You have nothing to say about that?”

Morris did original research on 1948; although I haven’t read his books that deal with the later developments, I doubt he’s uncovered anything about the last 40-odd years that isn’t already common knowledge (Especially since the real work that made him noteworthy is based on declassified documents). So when he reverts to type over Barak and Camp David, he only becomes one more Israel-apologist spouting conventional wisdom. And it should be noted, if Arafat planned to destroy Israel in stages, turning down an offer for a state (which he supposedly did in 2000) isn’t exactly sticking to the plan.

“You are beginning to bore me.”

Most of the above post is either an extended quote from Morris’ book or summarizing information from the same book. So he’s the one boring you.

“He also noted that there was no deliberate policy of expulsion, but says now that “the senior Israeli command did carry out expulsions in certain areas.”

If you dispute what he said then why bring him up as a referee?

You also did not respond to my question about the fact that 20% of Israel’s cotizens are Arabs.

And you are trying to whitewash Arab – Palestinian culpability about why this conflict has been ongoing. Yes, Morris, your referee says that too. You have nothing to say about that?

You are beginning to bore me.