26 comments for ”Israeli anchorwoman accused of ‘interpreting’ Netanyahu’s speech“

    
  1. Maybe Yonit Levy was trying to balance out the torrent of right-wing, anti-Arab, anti-Obama, anti-Europe comment by one Channel 2 news reporter after another.

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  3. It’s not true that there’s not such thing as objective news, rather that there’s objective, non-objective, and a grey area where the two are blurred. Take an event: the Mexican Gulf oil spill. Objectively it happened at the Deepwater rig, oil was released over many days, and killed 11 people as it blew out. Narratives about whether that’s an acceptable price to pay for oil production or where blame lies tip into the non-objective. Grey areas come about with things such as the amount of oil released. This is a definite quantity, but not being able to measure it, it has to be approximated. That’s where personal prejudices and values come in.

    Likewise, I get tired of hearing about how the Israel/Palestine is ‘just’ a series of narratives: it isn’t. Things happen, we then make judgements about the rights and wrongs of them before, look, there’s a narrative.

    So I don’t have a problem when journalists comment, so long as it’s clear that’s what they’re doing. If Levy had altered the actual text of Netanyahu’s translation, then that’s bad journalism and misleading. Thus you keep the fact and the narrative separate.

    See, it’s all dead simple.

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  5. Hey come on, off the fence; you can’t have ‘objective news’ and ‘everything’s relative.’ I agree that subjective takes on facts are of huge importance, often equalling or surpassing the objective, but still the facts are the basis or at least genesis for any narrative.

    That’s one reason why I, as an interested observer, find a lot of the Israel/Palestine ‘debate’ so monumentally boring. When people keep arguing over whether Jews or Palestinians lived in Palestine prior to ’48 for example, they may each have a narrative about it, but a relevant census will get you back to reality: they lived there or they didn’t.

    So come to think of it, why do I spend so much of my time reading about it? Likely got some narrative going on in my head I should sort out I suppose… .. .

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  7. What we see is that (a) Israel is most democratic country in Middle East — Lebanon is as democratic, IMHO, but one can pick different ways to judge it and (b) this fact worries enormously a large part of Israeli (and pro-Israeli) political class.

    At least, Ms. Levi was not roughed up and hospitalized.

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  9. Piotr, you’re pathetic :D
    The authority received hundreds of complains, so it has to investigate. As long as it didn’t decide that it was indeed wrong, this whole post is ridiculous.
    Come to think of it, the way the post is written may indeed lead you to misunderstand the actual situation… I guess that’s what Mairav refers to as “narrative” – selective truth

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  11. Oops, I meant, ‘veracity’ and ‘everything’s relative.’ A briefer way of making the point is that to say “11 people died as the Deepwater rig exploded” is objective, but “11 people were murdered,” isn’t. The latter having the judgement added to the information that they were killed.

    Of course my neat little division doesn’t say a word on what to do with the competing facts and judgements, but I’ve got work to do, so somebody else please sort that out.

    Much obliged.

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  13. Yonit is so beautiful. She can say what ever she wants, I will always love her.

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  15. I wonder what she thinks about Haredim. Or whether she lives on what Arabs consider land stolen in 1948.

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  17. We don’t know Ben: get her e-mail and ask her.

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  19. OK, Max. The deep concern that Israel is too democratic is widely shared in Israel.

    By the way, do you think that complaints are legitimate? I bet some viewers may complain that she is showing a female face on TV — would that be investigated as well?

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  21. Piotr, when you refer to things I didn’t say, does it mean you agree with what I did say?

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  23. Journalists are supposed to report the facts, not opinion.

    It is 100% true Arabs in Israel have more rights than they would in any Arab nation. They have a higher life expectancy, higher quality of life, lower infant mortality rate, etc.

    Inequalities exist yes, discrimination exists yes, but it is nothing compared to say…blacks vs whites in great America. Or Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.

    Minorities have it pretty d@mn great in Israel. Walk a few kilometers next door and people are treated according to superficial issues like skin, religion, race, etc.

    it is totally bigoted.

    i think leftwingers will condemn netanyahu no matter what he says.

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  25. Arab citizens of Lebanon have definitely more rights than Arab citizens of Israel. So Abban is strangely unfamiliar with the countries neighboring Israel.

    Second, quality of medicine is not a “right”.

    Third, it is very easy to find rights that say, Syrians enjoy, and Israeli Jews enjoy, but Israeli Arabs do not. For example, marry a member of your ethnic group that lives in another country. Or rent an apartment anywhere they want.

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  27. Berman you know jack squat about Lebanon. Lebanon is one of the most racist nations in the Middle East.

    Their entire government is predicated on race/ethnicity. According to the Lebanese constitution, the PM must be a Sunni. The President must be a Shiite. The speaker of parliament must be a Druze. Only so many members of parliament can be etc…etc…

    And if we consider Israeli Arabs as Palestinians – Palestinians in Lebanon are treated like dogs. They can’t access the state, don’t qualify for citizenship, totally banned from working (except for slave labor).

    Equality exists in Israel much as it does in the US or Europe.

    Learn some facts BERMAN before gushing on about how wonderful the Arab nations are. They aren’t that great. Lebanon is a joke both economically and socially.

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  29. Yeah Lebanon!
    “L” as in Loser. Twenty years of civil war, or was it longer? Its a winner! Great example of a working society.

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  31. The confessional system in Lebanon is definitely peculiar, but it is hard to see that it is a “racist” system. De facto, there are many similarities between Lebanon and Israel. Confessional parties have more or less guaranteed places in Israeli government. The marriage laws are more or less identical, for the same reason: top theocrats are vehemently opposed to civil marriages. Non-citizens Arabs are treated “like dogs”, although the have more opportunities in Lebanon, where Apartheid-like separation is much less tight. Unlike occupied Arabs, Palestinians travel freely in Lebanon. Also, Lebanon relaxed the official restrictions.

    The media of Lebanon are definitely pluralistic, which is easy to check on the web.

    I never read about Lebanese municipal employees issuing fatwas against renting or selling property to any minorities. Or in ANY other state than Israel. Also, the exclusion of minorities from neighborhoods seems to be more of a norm than exception in Israel, which makes it VERY different than any state in North America or Europe.

    Or take a fact that Jerusalem municipal government is blantantly discriminating against legal Arab residents.

    The excesses of police brutality in Israel are much more frequent than in Lebanon. The use of tear gas to inflict body injuries is quite unique to Israel.

    On the balance, in the sphere of civil rights Israel is no better than Lebanon. In the sphere of effective government, Israel is superior, but this includes superior levels of oppression of non-citizens that utilize all kinds of modern technology.

    What is amazing is how Israeli apologists describe the same kind of situation as “oppression”, “racist”, “inhuman” if it occurs abroad and find assorted rationalizations when they occur in Israel.

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  33. marriage laws? what?

    rhetoric rhetoric rhetoric. every time someone debunks your propaganda you move on to another issue. after marriage, you’ll talk about refugees. then the moon. then something else.

    classic islamist trickery.

    lebanon is an apartheid state. israel is a democracy. when you vote, you vote for anyone you want. and politicians aren’t earmarked by the constitution through superficial things like RACE and RELIGION.

    That is a JOKE. if any western state had a constitution that said the prime minister must be black and the president must be white, or vice-versa – they would be laughed at.

    media in lebanon? kidding me? how many journalists are routinely threatened with violence for criticizing syria or hezbollah? uh?

    jesus, jerusalem this again?

    STICK TO ONE TOPIC AT A TIME!

    LEBANON IS AN APARTHEID, RACIST, GOVERNMENT AND IMPOSES APARTHEID POLICIES TO PALESTINIANS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR ARE PALESTINIANS!

    And you really want to compare the economy of Lebanon to Israel? The quality of life of Lebanon to Israel?

    God go move to Lebanon if it is so wonderful.

    As far as protests go, guess you forgot about the 2007-2009 war where the Lebanese army bombed the living @#$#$ out of Palestinian refugee camps.

    Oh wait…who cares about FACTS. You have NONE.

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  35. @David
    .Agreed. Yonit is such a babe

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  37. AZIZ: you introduced new topics so I wanted to address them. You claimed that Arabs in Israel have “most rights” and the Lebanon is an absurd confessional apartheid state unlike soooo Western Israel. And as an example of “rights” you cited the quality of medical care.

    I proposed to compare what rights and limitations both citizens and non-citizens enjoy in Israel and Lebanon. And yes, media. One can very quickly find Lebanese media outlet that criticize Hezbollah and Syria. March 15 does have its share of media.

    I read Lebanese media and about Lebanon, and I am positive that a Lebanese citizen can vote for any party. For example, it was cited that half of the voters of Jumblatt’s Progressive Socialists are non-Druze. Some parties are secular. It just happens that most parties have clear confessional profile, and Israel seems to evolve in the same direction. By the way, Mister Expert on Lebanon, Speaker of Parliament has to be Shia. In Israel there was a quasi-constitutional reservation that Minister of Tourism has to be an idiot, but this hitherto underrepresented group made huge strides after last elections.

    Marriage laws are very important aspect of personal freedom. And Israel is very Middle Eastern in that respect, except that other Middle Eastern countries do not control who is allow to bring a foreign spouse and who is not allowed — something that depends on your religion in Israel. So much for “superficial distinctions”.

    Selecting the place where you live is a very important aspect of personal freedom. You do not have Anglican clergy cursing Anglican faithful who rent to Muslim. Or Lutheran clergy in Scandinavia. And an enormous authority that keeps Muslim away from most locations in England or, say, Norway. (Like in Israel, clergy of the official churches of north-European monarchies are state employees, so one can make a fair comparison here).

    “If any western state had a constitution…” Well, unlike Lebanon and most Western states, Israel does not have a constitution. So one cannot compare with Lebanon.

    Israel is very much an Apartheid state. What can occupied Arabs do that Lebanese Palestinians cannot? Do they have walls, checkpoints and “roads for Lebanese only” in Lebanon?

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  39. Berman, now you’re grasping.

    “By the way, Mister Expert on Lebanon, Speaker of Parliament has to be Shia. In Israel there was a quasi-constitutional reservation that Minister of Tourism has to be an idiot, but this hitherto underrepresented group made huge strides after last elections.”

    Really? This is your argument? You can’t get around the fact that Lebanon’s government is predicated on racist and ethnic status, not merit. This is why Lebanon had a civil war, because Muslims were being led by Christian generals, Druze were being told what to do by Palestinians, Shias had too much power, etc..etc…

    The disparities between minorities in Israel is more or less equal to those in the USA and far better than in Britain or France where Muslims have half the rights Israeli Muslims do.

    And you still can’t get over the fact that Palestinians are subject to apartheid in Lebanon. The Lebanese government totally bans Palestinians from getting citizenship even though they have been their for 60+ years.

    How can you peddle the apartheid trope against Israel but praise Lebanon? Get a clue Berman.

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  41. Both Israel and Lebanon are democratic states by the commonly accepted parameters of equality and freedom as applied via votes, free press, separation of powers, one justice for all etc.
    Obviously, not all democracies are alike; in fact, I doubt that you’ll find 2 identical democracies in the world.
    Also, both Israel and Lebanon do not grant democratic rights to non-citizens. That’s the only practice in the democratic world.
    The marriage laws in Israel have nothing to do with democracy, as it applies to all; the specific voting system in Lebanon is problematic, but so is zoning in the US, and in Lebanon it’s a political tool used to address a socio-political problems.
    All this is in theory. In practice, the civil wars in Lebanon (starting 1928) and its current political situation make the discussion about its democracy quite, well, theoretical, as it managed to function according to its constitution only anecdotally.
    .
    In this context, the major difference between Israel and all Arab countries is the accessibility of information to the public. That’s what makes it possible for educated criticism in Israel.
    .
    But back to the topic: @Piotr – as you injected this issue into the discussion – how is democracy related to expected practices when reporting news?

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  43. “only Israel’s Arab citizens enjoy real democratic rights.”

    I think to see if it is a true statement, one has to consider Lebanon. Note that Netanyahu claims that Lebanese, who are Arabs, do not enjoy real rights, not that the rights of Israeli Arabs are somewhat better.

    Of course, in the context of reporting news, I think that the government should not be in the position of judging objectivity of reporting on its activities. Falsifying a translation would clearly breach limits of free speach by “injuring” Mr. Netanyahu, but injecting a short comment that is clearly a comment, and is believed by the reporter to be true, should not be a problem for a regulating authority. They should dismiss the complaints.

    I think that if you consider such annoucement on investigation, deliberations in Knesset on NGO funding, Nakba law etc. you see a pattern. Not really limiting dissent (althought this happens too, in the context of military censorship, gag orders and persecution by security agencies) but villification and marginalization of dissent.

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  45. berman, I’m still waiting for your rationalization of Lebanon’s racist, ethnocracy where political positions are based on ethnic background rather than merit or voter approval.

    Israel is a democracy, Lebanon is not. Lebanon was after all owned and controlled by Syria for almost 25 years, and through Hezbollah continues to exert pressure over the government.

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  47. @ Berman
    “De facto, there are many similarities between Lebanon and Israel.”
    Yes, they are inhabited by carbon based life forms.

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  49. Piotr
    If Lebanon is such a wonderful country, have you considered moving there? Also, Russia is a wonderful democracy. Why are you living outside your Russian motherland?



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