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	<title>Comments on: Israeli activist testifies before Russell Tribunal on apartheid question</title>
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	<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30544</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30544</guid>
		<description>Thanks, will keep learning</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, will keep learning</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Rice</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30506</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30506</guid>
		<description>@Shaun - you are right, I should have qualified my statement by mentioning that Bedouin resettlement is an exception.  This would have been a better quote from my source http://www.haaretz.com/news/majadele-new-arab-city-will-bolster-our-sense-of-belonging-1.239141:

&quot;Since the establishment of the State of Israel, not a single new Arab settlement has been established, with the exception of permanent housing projects for Bedouins in the Negev.&quot;

However, these resettlement projects have been quite controversial and have generally been carried out against the will of the Bedouin population.  From http://www.jstor.org/stable/2537634 (Israeli State Policy toward Bedouin Sedentarization in the Negev by
Ghazi Falah, 1989):

&quot;Unlike many other Middle Eastern bedouin communities,  the Negev 
bedouin were already fully sedentarized when the Israeli government  began to implement  its settlement programs. Thus, these programs were not aimed primarily  at settling a previously highly mobile population; rather, the objective was to evict this population from its lands and to resettle it elsewhere. Involuntary  resettlement  and forced migration have become a characteristic  of Israeli government  policy toward the bedouin, even when the final results appear to have been voluntary.&quot;

A recent Economist article about the Bedouin in Israel is http://www.economist.com/node/21536645.

I think you might want to compare the growth in land area and infrastructure versus growth in population for Jewish and non-Jewish communities in Israel before trying to sweep everything under the carpet by the bland statement &quot;almost every Arab town mentioned in the above link the town has grown both in population and size including the creation of facilities.&quot;  See for example page 28 of &quot;Overlooking Nazareth: the ethnography of exclusion in Galilee&quot; by Dan Rabinowitz (preview on Google Books at http://books.google.com/books?id=0xX6UfsmO-EC&amp;pg=PA28&amp;lpg=PA28&amp;dq=nazareth%5C+1948+dunams&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=wv4Iwuoep9&amp;sig=90uL0GPxuuRIxEL2mwkMR1gzRpw&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=NIjCTsTFIs-UtweUz_m0DQ&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;sqi=2&amp;ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&amp;q=nazareth%201948%20dunams&amp;f=false.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shaun &#8211; you are right, I should have qualified my statement by mentioning that Bedouin resettlement is an exception.  This would have been a better quote from my source <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/news/majadele-new-arab-city-will-bolster-our-sense-of-belonging-1.239141" rel="nofollow">http://www.haaretz.com/news/majadele-new-arab-city-will-bolster-our-sense-of-belonging-1.239141</a>:</p>
<p>&#8220;Since the establishment of the State of Israel, not a single new Arab settlement has been established, with the exception of permanent housing projects for Bedouins in the Negev.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, these resettlement projects have been quite controversial and have generally been carried out against the will of the Bedouin population.  From <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2537634" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstor.org/stable/2537634</a> (Israeli State Policy toward Bedouin Sedentarization in the Negev by<br />
Ghazi Falah, 1989):</p>
<p>&#8220;Unlike many other Middle Eastern bedouin communities,  the Negev<br />
bedouin were already fully sedentarized when the Israeli government  began to implement  its settlement programs. Thus, these programs were not aimed primarily  at settling a previously highly mobile population; rather, the objective was to evict this population from its lands and to resettle it elsewhere. Involuntary  resettlement  and forced migration have become a characteristic  of Israeli government  policy toward the bedouin, even when the final results appear to have been voluntary.&#8221;</p>
<p>A recent Economist article about the Bedouin in Israel is <a href="http://www.economist.com/node/21536645" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/node/21536645</a>.</p>
<p>I think you might want to compare the growth in land area and infrastructure versus growth in population for Jewish and non-Jewish communities in Israel before trying to sweep everything under the carpet by the bland statement &#8220;almost every Arab town mentioned in the above link the town has grown both in population and size including the creation of facilities.&#8221;  See for example page 28 of &#8220;Overlooking Nazareth: the ethnography of exclusion in Galilee&#8221; by Dan Rabinowitz (preview on Google Books at <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=0xX6UfsmO-EC&#038;pg=PA28&#038;lpg=PA28&#038;dq=nazareth%5C+1948+dunams&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=wv4Iwuoep9&#038;sig=90uL0GPxuuRIxEL2mwkMR1gzRpw&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=NIjCTsTFIs-UtweUz_m0DQ&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=1&#038;sqi=2&#038;ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&#038;q=nazareth%201948%20dunams&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=0xX6UfsmO-EC&#038;pg=PA28&#038;lpg=PA28&#038;dq=nazareth%5C+1948+dunams&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=wv4Iwuoep9&#038;sig=90uL0GPxuuRIxEL2mwkMR1gzRpw&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=NIjCTsTFIs-UtweUz_m0DQ&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=1&#038;sqi=2&#038;ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&#038;q=nazareth%201948%20dunams&#038;f=false</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30459</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30459</guid>
		<description>Sorry Daniel, you write that: “For example, from 1948 until 2008 not a single new Arab municipality was recognized inside Israel, and the existing municipalities are completely curtailed in their growth…” I did a few quick check and found the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_localities_in_Israel
Just a few interesting points..
Ar&#039;arat an-Naqab was founded in 1982
Kuseife was founded in 1982
29 September 2003, &quot;Abu Basma Plan&quot; established seven new Bedouin settlements in the Negev
Added to this in almost every Arab town mentioned in the above link the town has grown both in population and size including the creation of facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Daniel, you write that: “For example, from 1948 until 2008 not a single new Arab municipality was recognized inside Israel, and the existing municipalities are completely curtailed in their growth…” I did a few quick check and found the following: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_localities_in_Israel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_localities_in_Israel</a><br />
Just a few interesting points..<br />
Ar&#8217;arat an-Naqab was founded in 1982<br />
Kuseife was founded in 1982<br />
29 September 2003, &#8220;Abu Basma Plan&#8221; established seven new Bedouin settlements in the Negev<br />
Added to this in almost every Arab town mentioned in the above link the town has grown both in population and size including the creation of facilities.</p>
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		<title>By: RichardNYC</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30428</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30428</guid>
		<description>@DANIEL RICE 
I&#039;m still interested in knowing whether you think America is an apartheid state. Something tells me your reluctance to express yourself honestly on this point has something to do with your understanding of the importance of relativism in discussions about morality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DANIEL RICE<br />
I&#8217;m still interested in knowing whether you think America is an apartheid state. Something tells me your reluctance to express yourself honestly on this point has something to do with your understanding of the importance of relativism in discussions about morality.</p>
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		<title>By: RichardNYC</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30427</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30427</guid>
		<description>@DANIEL RICE
I&#039;m a public school teacher in the south Bronx (joke), because if not I would have no credibility right? Contextualizing Israeli society is not deflection, it is elucidation. &quot;Discrimination&quot;, like other social science adjectives, is a relative concept - something that the anti-Israel community acknowledges when it compares Israelis to Nazis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DANIEL RICE<br />
I&#8217;m a public school teacher in the south Bronx (joke), because if not I would have no credibility right? Contextualizing Israeli society is not deflection, it is elucidation. &#8220;Discrimination&#8221;, like other social science adjectives, is a relative concept &#8211; something that the anti-Israel community acknowledges when it compares Israelis to Nazis.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Rice</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30384</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30384</guid>
		<description>@Richard: I&#039;m familiar with Jim Crow, ghettoization, redlining, housing discrimination urban renewal, bombing of urban neighborhoods, gentrification, all of that.  I&#039;ve seen it personally in New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Atlanta.  Sorry, my knowledge of Baltimore is limited to watching The Wire.  There&#039;s a lot to be done here to make civil rights a reality rather than an abstraction in many areas.

So, what are you doing to improve civil rights country you live in, besides using it as way to deflect attention from what Israel is doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard: I&#8217;m familiar with Jim Crow, ghettoization, redlining, housing discrimination urban renewal, bombing of urban neighborhoods, gentrification, all of that.  I&#8217;ve seen it personally in New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Atlanta.  Sorry, my knowledge of Baltimore is limited to watching The Wire.  There&#8217;s a lot to be done here to make civil rights a reality rather than an abstraction in many areas.</p>
<p>So, what are you doing to improve civil rights country you live in, besides using it as way to deflect attention from what Israel is doing?</p>
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		<title>By: RichardNYC</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30371</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30371</guid>
		<description>@DANIEL RICE
&quot;... the level of systematic discrimination goes way beyond gated communities and the urban/suburban growth disparities of the (post-civil rights era) United States.&quot;
--&gt;Have you been to Baltimore? Washington DC? Atlanta? New Orleans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DANIEL RICE<br />
&#8220;&#8230; the level of systematic discrimination goes way beyond gated communities and the urban/suburban growth disparities of the (post-civil rights era) United States.&#8221;<br />
&#8211;&gt;Have you been to Baltimore? Washington DC? Atlanta? New Orleans?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Rice</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30366</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30366</guid>
		<description>@Shaun: not only private, if you follow the link you will see that the Tel Aviv municipality is involved.  The government is intimately involved in the allocation of land resources.  For example, from 1948 until 2008 not a single new Arab municipality was recognized inside Israel, and the existing municipalities are completely curtailed in their growth, hemmed in by roads and (growing) Jewish towns and cities.

We can toss words around here all day, but if you were to see what is happening on the ground both inside Israel and in the West Bank (I have not personally been to Gaza) I believe you would see clearly that the level of systematic discrimination goes way beyond gated communities and the urban/suburban growth disparities of the (post-civil rights era) United States. It is clear to me that the state and local government, the police, and the courts all respond to the needs of elite Jewish citizens in one way, to those of non-elite Jewish citizens in another way, and to those of Palestinian citizens in yet another way, with little pretense of equality outside of hasbara for external consumption. The fact that all can vote (I am not speaking about the occupied territories at the moment) and have representation in the Knesset means little against these day-to-day realities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shaun: not only private, if you follow the link you will see that the Tel Aviv municipality is involved.  The government is intimately involved in the allocation of land resources.  For example, from 1948 until 2008 not a single new Arab municipality was recognized inside Israel, and the existing municipalities are completely curtailed in their growth, hemmed in by roads and (growing) Jewish towns and cities.</p>
<p>We can toss words around here all day, but if you were to see what is happening on the ground both inside Israel and in the West Bank (I have not personally been to Gaza) I believe you would see clearly that the level of systematic discrimination goes way beyond gated communities and the urban/suburban growth disparities of the (post-civil rights era) United States. It is clear to me that the state and local government, the police, and the courts all respond to the needs of elite Jewish citizens in one way, to those of non-elite Jewish citizens in another way, and to those of Palestinian citizens in yet another way, with little pretense of equality outside of hasbara for external consumption. The fact that all can vote (I am not speaking about the occupied territories at the moment) and have representation in the Knesset means little against these day-to-day realities.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30359</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30359</guid>
		<description>Thanks Daniel.
So there are private campaigns that encourage blood purity. Not unlike the “white-purity” fools that exist all over the US and Europe. The fact that public facilities are out of reach of the Arab population doesn’t  seem any different from ”gated communities”  in most suburban areas around the world. It might not be very nice. But it’s still far from government entrenched laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Daniel.<br />
So there are private campaigns that encourage blood purity. Not unlike the “white-purity” fools that exist all over the US and Europe. The fact that public facilities are out of reach of the Arab population doesn’t  seem any different from ”gated communities”  in most suburban areas around the world. It might not be very nice. But it’s still far from government entrenched laws.</p>
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		<title>By: John Love</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/israeli-activist-testifies-before-russell-tribunal-on-question-of-apartheid/27552/comment-page-1/#comment-30358</link>
		<dc:creator>John Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=27552#comment-30358</guid>
		<description>I feel that S.A apartheid is a truly base and terrible crime from contemporary history. I believe that the definition of Apartheid under international law does classify Israel as guilty of the crime of apartheid , as it would in Turkey with the  Kurdi, as it would in Syria and the Sunni muslims. As it would within cultures inside Israel, as in the case of the afro-bedouin. Or in many other countries and many other governments.

The argument is easily regarded as polemic since both sides are arguing with their hearts, sincerely desperate not to associate the state of Israel with the terrible crime of specifically South African apartheid versus angst-ridden libertarian idealism seeking to end a humanitarian crises. And it is a crises. 

The goal of this tribunal, if I understand its aims and not its politics, is to influence emotional intelligence to unblock whatever inhibits  people from seeing truths that contradict their own present tense narrative of the world. 

Message received. I will vote when there are elections and support or protest what and where I will. 

However, whatever the goal of the Russel Tribunal,  I believe the effect will not encourage peace but instead fuel anti-semitism and anti-Israel sentiment against people who cannot distinguish between the racist domination of white over black in S.A. apartheid and the struggle of half a century between the cornucopia of influences from all corners of the Jewish world (including a few Arab nations) and the people of OPT and Gaza.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that S.A apartheid is a truly base and terrible crime from contemporary history. I believe that the definition of Apartheid under international law does classify Israel as guilty of the crime of apartheid , as it would in Turkey with the  Kurdi, as it would in Syria and the Sunni muslims. As it would within cultures inside Israel, as in the case of the afro-bedouin. Or in many other countries and many other governments.</p>
<p>The argument is easily regarded as polemic since both sides are arguing with their hearts, sincerely desperate not to associate the state of Israel with the terrible crime of specifically South African apartheid versus angst-ridden libertarian idealism seeking to end a humanitarian crises. And it is a crises. </p>
<p>The goal of this tribunal, if I understand its aims and not its politics, is to influence emotional intelligence to unblock whatever inhibits  people from seeing truths that contradict their own present tense narrative of the world. </p>
<p>Message received. I will vote when there are elections and support or protest what and where I will. </p>
<p>However, whatever the goal of the Russel Tribunal,  I believe the effect will not encourage peace but instead fuel anti-semitism and anti-Israel sentiment against people who cannot distinguish between the racist domination of white over black in S.A. apartheid and the struggle of half a century between the cornucopia of influences from all corners of the Jewish world (including a few Arab nations) and the people of OPT and Gaza.</p>
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