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	<title>Comments on: Islamists win two-thirds of Egyptian vote</title>
	<atom:link href="http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/</link>
	<description>Independent commentary and news from Israel &#38; Palestine</description>
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		<title>By: John Yorke</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40860</link>
		<dc:creator>John Yorke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 07:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40860</guid>
		<description>Well, the count is in, the deed is done and there it is. 
It may not be the ideal result from a liberal point of view and what happens next and thereafter can have serious consequences for the future. Nevertheless, the situation is as it is and how it progresses is still a matter for human beings to decide. Or not, if such is their inclination. 
The destiny of Man can be shaped both by his actions or, as on so many occasions, by his lack of them. But, as the Arab Spring has demonstrated, it is a difficult process to control once embarked upon, the task being subject to all sorts of rebuffs and changes in direction. The hope must be that any of the wilder oscillations will be short-lived and those that remain may allow for some better vision of the way ahead. 

If Israel&#039;s response to Islamic popular success in Egypt and elsewhere manifests itself in the further retrenchment of its religious and political positions, then only a hardening of battle lines can be expected, a condition that helps the overall situation not one bit. Each side becoming the mirror-image of the other leaves very little room for manoeuvre or advancement towards a favourable outcome for all.

Or does it? What if the reflection presented to them was one in which they do see themselves with a clarity never before experienced? Would that invoke a desire for radical change, for a refocusing of  the entire picture, seeing in it something that could be of far greater significance?
The liberal viewpoint cannot reveal such detail; it is too self-absorbed, too inward-looking to project the true reality of what&#039;s going on. The conservative one is even worse. It refuses to acknowledge the need for any reappraisal whatsoever.  

The only alternative, therefore, is to throw a &#039;wild card&#039; into the mix, an irrational element that stirs up the moribund nature of this apparently insoluble impasse and, in doing so, highlights options hitherto hidden from sight, never before considered as such.  

Http://yorketowers.blogspot.com   

And, as is so often seen in the affairs of men, it is sometimes only by the most desperate of measures that extraction from the direst of predicaments can be achieved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the count is in, the deed is done and there it is.<br />
It may not be the ideal result from a liberal point of view and what happens next and thereafter can have serious consequences for the future. Nevertheless, the situation is as it is and how it progresses is still a matter for human beings to decide. Or not, if such is their inclination.<br />
The destiny of Man can be shaped both by his actions or, as on so many occasions, by his lack of them. But, as the Arab Spring has demonstrated, it is a difficult process to control once embarked upon, the task being subject to all sorts of rebuffs and changes in direction. The hope must be that any of the wilder oscillations will be short-lived and those that remain may allow for some better vision of the way ahead. </p>
<p>If Israel&#8217;s response to Islamic popular success in Egypt and elsewhere manifests itself in the further retrenchment of its religious and political positions, then only a hardening of battle lines can be expected, a condition that helps the overall situation not one bit. Each side becoming the mirror-image of the other leaves very little room for manoeuvre or advancement towards a favourable outcome for all.</p>
<p>Or does it? What if the reflection presented to them was one in which they do see themselves with a clarity never before experienced? Would that invoke a desire for radical change, for a refocusing of  the entire picture, seeing in it something that could be of far greater significance?<br />
The liberal viewpoint cannot reveal such detail; it is too self-absorbed, too inward-looking to project the true reality of what&#8217;s going on. The conservative one is even worse. It refuses to acknowledge the need for any reappraisal whatsoever.  </p>
<p>The only alternative, therefore, is to throw a &#8216;wild card&#8217; into the mix, an irrational element that stirs up the moribund nature of this apparently insoluble impasse and, in doing so, highlights options hitherto hidden from sight, never before considered as such.  </p>
<p>Http://yorketowers.blogspot.com   </p>
<p>And, as is so often seen in the affairs of men, it is sometimes only by the most desperate of measures that extraction from the direst of predicaments can be achieved.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Kerpin</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40840</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Kerpin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 03:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40840</guid>
		<description>Henry Lowi: &quot;the Arab revolution is on the march ... and has set its goals as freedom for the people.&quot;

Unless you happen to be gay, a woman, a Christian, or any other minority. Mr. Lowi is the perfect example of the pseudo-intellectual leftist European who is incapable of dealing with any reality outside the EU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry Lowi: &#8220;the Arab revolution is on the march &#8230; and has set its goals as freedom for the people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unless you happen to be gay, a woman, a Christian, or any other minority. Mr. Lowi is the perfect example of the pseudo-intellectual leftist European who is incapable of dealing with any reality outside the EU.</p>
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		<title>By: Susannah</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40825</link>
		<dc:creator>Susannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40825</guid>
		<description>Wow - I had an overwhelming sense of deja vu reading these comments. 

They have an uncanny resemblance to the comments in the Jerusalem Post - filled with pure invective, and heavily laced with personal attacks on the writer.

Not to mention abysmal ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; I had an overwhelming sense of deja vu reading these comments. </p>
<p>They have an uncanny resemblance to the comments in the Jerusalem Post &#8211; filled with pure invective, and heavily laced with personal attacks on the writer.</p>
<p>Not to mention abysmal ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40773</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40773</guid>
		<description>And furthermore, the far bigger issue is not &quot;who Israel likes.&quot; The far bigger issue is that Egypt and other Arab countries are throwing dictators out, and using &quot;free elections&quot; to elect people who are JUST AS BAD AS THE DICTATORS.

To somehow bash Israel over this reality is absurd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And furthermore, the far bigger issue is not &#8220;who Israel likes.&#8221; The far bigger issue is that Egypt and other Arab countries are throwing dictators out, and using &#8220;free elections&#8221; to elect people who are JUST AS BAD AS THE DICTATORS.</p>
<p>To somehow bash Israel over this reality is absurd.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40771</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40771</guid>
		<description>LARRY DERFNER appears to support people who want peace, and peace with Israel.

He doesn&#039;t like dictators, or radicals, or any other lunatics. He appears to just support people who want peace.

The only people this offends are people who just want to bash Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LARRY DERFNER appears to support people who want peace, and peace with Israel.</p>
<p>He doesn&#8217;t like dictators, or radicals, or any other lunatics. He appears to just support people who want peace.</p>
<p>The only people this offends are people who just want to bash Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40765</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40765</guid>
		<description>Larry

Can I just say - I&#039;m a liberal and a very strong supporter of Israel, and think that a big chunk of the political positions taken by +972 are just silly. 

I&#039;m also dismayed (but unsurprised) by the outcome of the Egyptian elections. 

HOWEVER ... 

&quot; I would have supported Mubarak. I know the road to democracy and reform was never going to be easy in Egypt or any other Arab country, but let’s face it – this is terrible. &quot;

Yes, of course it is terrible. 

But there is no alternative to democracy. You can&#039;t expect a population to be subject to a dictatorship - not only is that an outrageous position, it is also untenable. 

Egypt may be headed for disaster - or it may pull back from the brink. Either way, the essence of democracy is that these choices (and their consequences) are a matter for the people. 

There&#039;s no alternative to democracy. There never was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry</p>
<p>Can I just say &#8211; I&#8217;m a liberal and a very strong supporter of Israel, and think that a big chunk of the political positions taken by +972 are just silly. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also dismayed (but unsurprised) by the outcome of the Egyptian elections. </p>
<p>HOWEVER &#8230; </p>
<p>&#8221; I would have supported Mubarak. I know the road to democracy and reform was never going to be easy in Egypt or any other Arab country, but let’s face it – this is terrible. &#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, of course it is terrible. </p>
<p>But there is no alternative to democracy. You can&#8217;t expect a population to be subject to a dictatorship &#8211; not only is that an outrageous position, it is also untenable. </p>
<p>Egypt may be headed for disaster &#8211; or it may pull back from the brink. Either way, the essence of democracy is that these choices (and their consequences) are a matter for the people. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no alternative to democracy. There never was.</p>
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		<title>By: DTA</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40686</link>
		<dc:creator>DTA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40686</guid>
		<description>@SH: Your analogy is so beautiful.

@Larry: I read your comparison to a military dictatorship vs. a religious dictatorship. In Turkey, in 2002 and a few years afterwards, there was exactly this kind of a vocal concern when Erdogan&#039;s party (AKP) got to the government right after a very big economic crisis early that year. At that time the so-called secular and &quot;left&quot; parties got very worried about this. But, fortunately, what happened was their time in government made that ruling party to become much more moderate over the time, and I believe this is because once they were in the government they understood they had to deal with running an already strained economy, relationships with the EU, be pragmatic and etc. Now the same ruling party has a near 50% support base, but I really suspect if the religious aspect is more than 15-20%. Also it was very interesting to note that Erdogan advocated secularism during his visit to Egypt last summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SH: Your analogy is so beautiful.</p>
<p>@Larry: I read your comparison to a military dictatorship vs. a religious dictatorship. In Turkey, in 2002 and a few years afterwards, there was exactly this kind of a vocal concern when Erdogan&#8217;s party (AKP) got to the government right after a very big economic crisis early that year. At that time the so-called secular and &#8220;left&#8221; parties got very worried about this. But, fortunately, what happened was their time in government made that ruling party to become much more moderate over the time, and I believe this is because once they were in the government they understood they had to deal with running an already strained economy, relationships with the EU, be pragmatic and etc. Now the same ruling party has a near 50% support base, but I really suspect if the religious aspect is more than 15-20%. Also it was very interesting to note that Erdogan advocated secularism during his visit to Egypt last summer.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Lowi</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40681</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Lowi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40681</guid>
		<description>So, I guess that Larry Derfner, knowing what he knows now, will support the Egyptian military dictatorship (Mubarak regime without Mubarak) when it exercises repression against those it terms &quot;Islamists&quot;, all in the name of being &quot;liberal&quot;.  Larry exposes his value system while writing about topics that he does not know much about.  The troubling fact, for &quot;liberals&quot; like Larry, is that the Arab revolution is on the march, it is combatting obstacles like Gaddafi, the TNC, Mubarak, SCAF, MB, the Assad regime, and the Zionist regime of Israel, and has set its goals as freedom for the people.  Along the way there will be partial victories and setbacks, but democracy will win in the Arab East and North Africa, Palestine will be free, and &quot;liberals&quot; will have nothing to contribute to any of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I guess that Larry Derfner, knowing what he knows now, will support the Egyptian military dictatorship (Mubarak regime without Mubarak) when it exercises repression against those it terms &#8220;Islamists&#8221;, all in the name of being &#8220;liberal&#8221;.  Larry exposes his value system while writing about topics that he does not know much about.  The troubling fact, for &#8220;liberals&#8221; like Larry, is that the Arab revolution is on the march, it is combatting obstacles like Gaddafi, the TNC, Mubarak, SCAF, MB, the Assad regime, and the Zionist regime of Israel, and has set its goals as freedom for the people.  Along the way there will be partial victories and setbacks, but democracy will win in the Arab East and North Africa, Palestine will be free, and &#8220;liberals&#8221; will have nothing to contribute to any of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Palestinian</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40673</link>
		<dc:creator>Palestinian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40673</guid>
		<description>So if I believe that Islam is the answer ,as a political system then I&#039;m an Islamist ? do you know how many people believe Islam is the answer ,even if they dont agree with all the Islamic laws .Then who is a Muslim ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if I believe that Islam is the answer ,as a political system then I&#8217;m an Islamist ? do you know how many people believe Islam is the answer ,even if they dont agree with all the Islamic laws .Then who is a Muslim ?</p>
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		<title>By: azza sedky</title>
		<link>http://972mag.com/islamists-win-two-thirds-of-egyptian-vote/33532/comment-page-1/#comment-40658</link>
		<dc:creator>azza sedky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://972mag.com/?p=33532#comment-40658</guid>
		<description>I agree with the author. http://azzasedky.typepad.com/egypt/2011/12/the-islamists-are-here.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the author. <a href="http://azzasedky.typepad.com/egypt/2011/12/the-islamists-are-here.html" rel="nofollow">http://azzasedky.typepad.com/egypt/2011/12/the-islamists-are-here.html</a></p>
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