18 comments for ”Goldstone “apology” won’t make us stop talking of occupation“

    
  1. Pathetic, yet expected, response

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  3. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Judge Goldstone wrote his op-ed as a direct result of the pressure put upon him by Israel – pressure that made him a pariah within his own community and which affected also his family. And it also wouldn’t surprise me if the Mossad was involved in this pressure in order to break Goldstone and make him retract his findings. Poor Goldstone now wants to make amends with his vile tormentors and is even willing to serve as a propaganda mouthpiece for this criminal regime (what in the name of God does the Fogel killings have to do with what happened in Gaza???) Bottom line, I feel sorry for Goldstone, but I don’t buy his cop-out for a single minute. The facts speak louder than any op-ed: 3 weeks, nearly 1400 dead, of these more than 300 women and children. Case closed.

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  5. @Noam – I commend you for picking out the most important quote from Goldstone’s op-ed. His retraction of the report’s claim that Israel intentionally targeted civilians indeed was the most significant part of his piece.
    As for Israel’s lack of cooperation at the time, it really cannot be blamed given the UNHRC’s track record. Goldstone even (unwittingly) explains why Israel couldn’t have trusted the U.N. in his op-ed when he wrote: “Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations.”
    Despite disagreeing with some of your premises, I appreciate your thoughts (and agree with more of what you wrote than disagree).

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  7. The comparison is not one between Hamas and Israel. Rather it is according to standards of the international community and its respect of IHL and IHRL. Israel has a 44 year history of failure on this matter.

    Lieberman has applauded the new conclusions reached by Goldstone. Yet he continues to push the same old Israeli line of bias etc. In other words Israeli “Hasbara” has not changed so much, rather it now feels itself vindicated when nothing like that has happened. The Goldstone process, I think was less about Israeli direct targeting of civilians as individual civilians but more about an attack on civilian infrastructure thus creating an impossible living situation for civilians for whom Israel still owes the obligation of protection. This too is the story of the OCCUPATION, total disregard for the duty to protect. Rather Israel priveleges the settlers, encouraging, helping and cooperating in law violation daily, and penalizes Palestinian for seeking their rights
    6. The Judge is correct there must be a full scale and collective condemnation of any and all attacks on Civilians. As far as settlers are concerned… his statement is salient. NO child should be targeted. At the same time maybe it is time for us to make a statement and CALL FOR THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES TO ACT RESPONSIBLY AND STOP USING ITS OWN CHILDREN AS SECURITY INSTRUMENTS AND TO REMOVE ALL CHILDREN FROM HARMS WAY IN THE SETTLEMENTS… The institution of being a settler is a criminal institution. It should not carry the death penalty but time has come to call Israel on its long term lie and state clearly: There is no human right to be a settler. http://zeek.forward.com/articles/116178/

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  9. “and also contributed a chapter to the book on report”

    No, it would take an uncommon level of integrity for one to repudiate one’s printed word. Few have it, most don’t.

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  11. pointing all the accusations against Israel all the time it is not the solution , if you are really seeking human rights check the other side

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  13. Those who think the report is now irrelevant should read it (and better too the pre and post Goldstone reports from the IDF.)

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  15. Here’s an interesting article from Mail & Guardian entitled “Occupation, not Apartheid” that gets to the heart of my point: http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-09-occupation-not-apartheid

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  17. I haven’t given up on Goldstone – I’m all but 100% sure he didn’t mean to “retract” his report, but to rebalance it w/the Israeli investigations, which he didn’t have before. I think he still considers Op Cast Lead to have been appalling, just less appalling than he did before. And I expect him to clarify this very soon, because his op-ed just invites distortion. It’s done a huge amount of damage that can’t be undone, but I think it’s important for history for Goldstone to set things straight. And if I’m wrong – if he is retracting – it won’t change my view or anybody’s else’s about the war, just like his report didn’t – everybody made up his or her mind about while it was being fought.

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  19. A good response to the supposed retraction by Goldstone…Israel routinely kills civilians as we have seen in Lebanon and the Occupied territories; as long as they do not officially say that that is their intent then it does not matter. Thus the lives of the Palestinians or Lebanese do not matter.

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  21. 1. Judge Goldstone has not retracted anything. Nor has he disavowed the report. All that is Israeli spin and sloppy reading.

    2. What he wrote is that the IDF investigation of certain events provide better explanations than the one initially reported in the Goldstone Report, which called for the investigation. That is not a disavowal of the report; that is its fulfilment. It is, to be sure, a positive view of the Israeli explanation on this point.

    3. Goldstone endorses the UHC UN report that does not exonerate Israel and calls for a public investigation of the Goldstone Report. That is strongly implied in the op-ed

    4. Goldstone still calls for a public investigation not conducted by the Israeli military on *all* the claims of the report. That is strongly implied in the op-ed.

    The above has been confirmed by sources close to Judge Goldstone. For further clarification of Judge Goldstone’s position, read

    http://www.jeremiahhaber.com/2011/04/judge-goldstone-washington-post-op-ed.html

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  23. I havent said anything more harsh than your colleage Yossi Gurwitz said today. Is the policy of your column that only non-Palestinians can criticize ziostan? If so, that seems pretty racist to me. You might want to learn something from your colleage Mr Gurwitz

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  25. Noam, I guess we have radically different views on some matters (for you, it seems, all of Israel’s actions are a crime, regardless of cause and effect or alternatives), which make it close to impossible to argue on nuances.

    Nevertheless, a few items that stopped my reading for a second:
    1. “what a great opportunity to make the public forget the latest travel scandal” –
    what a great equivalence you show here, I was almost waiting for you to claims that Netanyahu asked Judge Goldstone for help…
    2. Israel’s cooperation
    Besides the point made earlier (which I’m sure you’re aware of) of the assumed counter productivity of cooperating with this ridiculous body, you probably know that Israel did provide, unofficially, much information that has been discarded by the fact-finding team
    3. Neither you nor I know how Israel would’ve investigated itself had the Report not been published. But both you and I know that Israel started its investigations, as it does after every major military action, before the Report was published.

    In short, I find your view quite disingenuous: you didn’t need the Report to hold your views and prefer to ignore its author’s new understandings: crimes may have happened on the Israeli side, but they were not a matter of policy; crimes happened on the Palestinian side, and they were a matter of policy.

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  27. Poor Max. Someone has to explained him basic things like:

    1. You cannot provide testimony “unofficially”.

    2. We know from Mavi Marmara incidents how difficult it is for IDF to distinguish civilians from terrorists. Did Israel investigate Gen. Ashkenazi for testifying that an Israeli soldier was shot when it was never found to be true (the most celebrated “unknown soldier”, I presume). Did Israel investigate forensic reports that some Mavi Marmara passengers were executed after being wounded and prone? Is THAT within official IDF policy?

    3. Actually, Goldstone report does describe a number of explanation received from Israel. It just so happen than none was consistent with the evidence.

    4. As a source of information, and even investigation, it is hard to find an equally “ridiculous body” as IDF.

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  29. [...] המאמר של השופט גולדסטון, מישהו פנה בטוויטר למגזין 972 (בו התפרסם הפוסט הזה לראשונה, בשינויים מסוימים), ודרש שנחזור בנו מההאשמות של ישראל [...]

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  31. Dear Piotr,

    I’m not sure on what base your state your claims of Testimony and negate Israel’s ability to investigate itslef. I wonder if you could provide some comparative, legally relevant cases.

    I found some related material on Jpost, which I copy below (you may reach the original via http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/dd0e9e449454c4d18525785a0063e110?OpenDocument). It refers to UNHRC’s follow up investigations. I don’t know what’s your opinion of this body, but for me anything coming from them in favor of Israel must have caused them much stomach ache. they seem to agree that Israel is well positioned to investigate itself.

    Of course, if your basis is that Israel and the IDF are criminal organizations, the following won’t be relevant.

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  33. Goldstone reconsiders his report? This remains to be seen. His op-ed was published April 1st on the International day of fools.
    The real question is why the heck the Israelis went into Gaza and killed one and the half thousand men, women and children?



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