Comments on: From Spain, with love: M-15 activists write to their J14 friends http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Sat, 25 May 2013 13:31:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Cristina http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68803 Cristina Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:47:06 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68803 Amit.... First: No one is more representative than another to 15M.The 15M has not published anything about bds, or about 14J. I am activist 15M, more than BDS's. Many people 15M also think that have missed a complaint about Spain's role in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the beginning of 15M, and also thought it lacked a position against intervention in Libya, many believe it has been a mistake. 15M is not only economic plaint! A re-evolution it is not if isn't for everyone! The apartheid of the Palestinian people is not comparable to "a state bad deed". Not a question of make an exception out of Israeli jews, the Bds also affect the Palestinians and Israelis(jews)anti-Zionist who support it, but most would affect the economic interests of the state of Israel. Amit…. First: No one is more representative than another to 15M.The 15M has not published anything about bds, or about 14J. I am activist 15M, more than BDS’s. Many people 15M also think that have missed a complaint about Spain’s role in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the beginning of 15M, and also thought it lacked a position against intervention in Libya, many believe it has been a mistake. 15M is not only economic plaint! A re-evolution it is not if isn’t for everyone! The apartheid of the Palestinian people is not comparable to “a state bad deed”. Not a question of make an exception out of Israeli jews, the Bds also affect the Palestinians and Israelis(jews)anti-Zionist who support it, but most would affect the economic interests of the state of Israel.

]]> By: Ami Kaufman http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68625 Ami Kaufman Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:14:20 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68625 @amit - you raise some good points. @amit – you raise some good points.

]]> By: amit http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68624 amit Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:03:09 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68624 I think Leo is much more representative of the M15 than the two other commentators, who seem to be two BDS'rs "who are also active in M15" more than actual activists from the core of the m15 movement. but who knows. In any case I didn't see m15 demanding from the occupy wall street movement to formally denounce the occupation of afghanistan or previously of iraq, before they start to cooperate with them. More over, spain itself was part of that occupation, not to talk about other ethnic conflicts that exist in spain and the m15 movement is not adressing. does the BDS'rs would like to boycott m15 too? It's accepted by everyone that not every citizen is guilty of his\her government deeds on ethnic and forigen policy issues. that's why there is cooperation with the american citizens of occupy wall street movment even though they dont formally denounce all the american state bad deeds. that's why there's cooperation with the spanish citizens of M15 movements even though they dont formally denounce all Spanish state bad deeds. And that's why there should be cooperation with the Israeli citizens of J14, even though they dont formally denounce the Israeli state bad deeds. BDS'rs want to make an exception out of Israeli jews. their effort shouldnt work. I think Leo is much more representative of the M15 than the two other commentators, who seem to be two BDS’rs “who are also active in M15″ more than actual activists from the core of the m15 movement. but who knows.
In any case I didn’t see m15 demanding from the occupy wall street movement to formally denounce the occupation of afghanistan or previously of iraq, before they start to cooperate with them. More over, spain itself was part of that occupation, not to talk about other ethnic conflicts that exist in spain and the m15 movement is not adressing. does the BDS’rs would like to boycott m15 too?
It’s accepted by everyone that not every citizen is guilty of his\her government deeds on ethnic and forigen policy issues. that’s why there is cooperation with the american citizens of occupy wall street movment even though they dont formally denounce all the american state bad deeds. that’s why there’s cooperation with the spanish citizens of M15 movements even though they dont formally denounce all Spanish state bad deeds. And that’s why there should be cooperation with the Israeli citizens of J14, even though they dont formally denounce the Israeli state bad deeds. BDS’rs want to make an exception out of Israeli jews. their effort shouldnt work.

]]> By: Ami Kaufman http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68615 Ami Kaufman Sat, 14 Jul 2012 12:19:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68615 whatever. find the people who wrote it and tell 'em, for all i care. it's your movement. deal with it. whatever. find the people who wrote it and tell ‘em, for all i care. it’s your movement. deal with it.

]]> By: Cristina http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68614 Cristina Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:52:04 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68614 I would like to reply to Leo Fundamentalists who support the Palestinians?!! those who question (much!) supporting a movement that does not call into question a regime of military occupation and apartheid? Do tou think we are "old-fashioned people" because we are not uncritically-inclusive enough? ¿What's "New" ...? Do you think that is something new will not be critical to an occupying state, plundering, sectarian and racist, that daily violates basic human rights of the legitimate inhabitants of this land? A state that profits (because the occupation costs but also produces large profits, as any colonial policy) of the occupied territory? Well no thanks, if so I will not be "modern". ...And please, less superficiality with these issues, in the meantime there are people who dying almost daily. I would like to reply to Leo
Fundamentalists who support the Palestinians?!! those who question (much!) supporting a movement that does not call into question a regime of military occupation and apartheid? Do tou think we are “old-fashioned people” because we are not uncritically-inclusive enough? ¿What’s “New” …? Do you think that is something new will not be critical to an occupying state, plundering, sectarian and racist, that daily violates basic human rights of the legitimate inhabitants of this land? A state that profits (because the occupation costs but also produces large profits, as any colonial policy) of the occupied territory? Well no thanks, if so I will not be “modern”. …And please, less superficiality with these issues, in the meantime there are people who dying almost daily.

]]> By: Cristina http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68611 Cristina Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:15:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68611 Sorry Mr Kaufman, when I give a personal opinion I do it as Cristina, I do not like activist 15M, I think it is good practice Sorry Mr Kaufman, when I give a personal opinion I do it as Cristina, I do not like activist 15M, I think it is good practice

]]> By: Ami Kaufman http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68609 Ami Kaufman Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:40:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68609 There also seems to be a tendency of M15 activists to not read posts until the end. Is this official M15 policy? The activists above, at the end of their letter, claim quite clearly that they represent only themselves. . I know people these days don't have time or patience to read things through, but I must say, it's a really bad habit. Quite lazy, actually. There also seems to be a tendency of M15 activists to not read posts until the end. Is this official M15 policy? The activists above, at the end of their letter, claim quite clearly that they represent only themselves.
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I know people these days don’t have time or patience to read things through, but I must say, it’s a really bad habit. Quite lazy, actually.

]]> By: Ami Kaufman http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68593 Ami Kaufman Sat, 14 Jul 2012 04:07:31 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68593 @leil - the fact you call me hasbara shows how little you know about me, my writing and 972. That's a first! I don't think anyone of 072's founders has been accused of hasbara! What are you guys smoking over there in Madrid? . It also shows how shallow your debating skills are and how rude you are to call me that on my blog. Therefore, get off my wall and have your discussions with your other m15 activists about your views. Stifle whoever you want. But that will be the last time you call me a name on my wall. . As for the "slamming", well - it was you who started. I know, a lot of people get surprised when a blogger bites back. I tend to be just as impolite as some of my readers. I stoop down to their levels. Like yours! . Also, for future reference, smileys don't hide the fact you're a schmuck. @leil – the fact you call me hasbara shows how little you know about me, my writing and 972. That’s a first! I don’t think anyone of 072′s founders has been accused of hasbara! What are you guys smoking over there in Madrid?
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It also shows how shallow your debating skills are and how rude you are to call me that on my blog. Therefore, get off my wall and have your discussions with your other m15 activists about your views. Stifle whoever you want. But that will be the last time you call me a name on my wall.
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As for the “slamming”, well – it was you who started. I know, a lot of people get surprised when a blogger bites back. I tend to be just as impolite as some of my readers. I stoop down to their levels. Like yours!
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Also, for future reference, smileys don’t hide the fact you’re a schmuck.

]]> By: Leil-Zahra Mortada http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68581 Leil-Zahra Mortada Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:07:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68581 You did a very good job with the title, again! You can be more creative in slamming me :) Just for the record, of course "opinions" are welcomed in all their wide range and variety. But when we are talking about a movement for social change, supporting apartheid and falling into a big state-funded campaign to whitewash crimes against humanity don´t particularly fall under a "difference" in "opinion" :) I don´t think they, if they exist, are culprits of anything! It is a discussion we should´ve ¨officially¨ started within our movement ages ago. Thanks for sparking it. N.B. I thought you were defending various opinions, and you are "loosing respect" for a whole movement based on three comments? very hasbaric of you :) I on the other hand will continue to work and support the anti-Zionist Israeli left who is working for real and just peace and change! You did a very good job with the title, again! You can be more creative in slamming me :)

Just for the record, of course “opinions” are welcomed in all their wide range and variety. But when we are talking about a movement for social change, supporting apartheid and falling into a big state-funded campaign to whitewash crimes against humanity don´t particularly fall under a “difference” in “opinion” :)

I don´t think they, if they exist, are culprits of anything! It is a discussion we should´ve ¨officially¨ started within our movement ages ago. Thanks for sparking it.

N.B. I thought you were defending various opinions, and you are “loosing respect” for a whole movement based on three comments? very hasbaric of you :) I on the other hand will continue to work and support the anti-Zionist Israeli left who is working for real and just peace and change!

]]> By: Ami Kaufman http://972mag.com/from-spain-with-love-m-15-activists-write-to-their-j14-friends/50359/comment-page-1/#comment-68578 Ami Kaufman Fri, 13 Jul 2012 20:40:12 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=50359#comment-68578 Ms. Mortada, . My title is fine, but thank you for your patronizing input nonetheless. :) . I don't have an original letter. This is the letter that was posted all over Facebook. I just copy--pasted it as is. . Good luck with finding the culprits, the activists who voiced an opinion, activists who apparently belong to a movement where they say you can have many opinions - but maybe only the ones that certain people agree with. . Jeez, I'm starting to lose my respect for M15... Good job! ;) Ms. Mortada,
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My title is fine, but thank you for your patronizing input nonetheless. :)
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I don’t have an original letter. This is the letter that was posted all over Facebook. I just copy–pasted it as is.
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Good luck with finding the culprits, the activists who voiced an opinion, activists who apparently belong to a movement where they say you can have many opinions – but maybe only the ones that certain people agree with.
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Jeez, I’m starting to lose my respect for M15… Good job! ;)

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