Comments on: Finally, Israel has an opposition: Tzipi Livni’s Hatnuah party http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:38:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.8 By: sh http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-103817 Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:03:23 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-103817 I concur. There was no opposition and she was conspicuous by her absence. Curiously, Gideon Levi wrote an article a few days ago encouraging undecided “centrists” to vote Livni – although he wouldn’t. I’m voting Daam.

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By: sh http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-103816 Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:54:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-103816 ” It describes with great pathos the pain felt by Jews because we didn’t have Jerusalem. NAOMI SHEMER WAS NOT RELIGIOUS.”

Oh my goodness, what a long list of comments since I last looked at this!

I’ll tell you a sliver of a secret, XYZ. I happen to have worked with Naomi Shemer and understand the difference between her secular pathos and pain for *access* to Jerusalem and the desire to “have it”, as you put it. She wrote that song before the Six-Day War as you surely know. And changed direction only after it.

If Jews had had free access to the Western Wall and Makhpela during the 19 years they did not, the Six-Day War would have been even shorter.

You’ll also be familiar with a song that is not by Naomi Shemer called HaSela HaAdom. Out of pathos too, Israelis risked and sometimes lost their lives to go to Petra during those 19 years. They go there freely now, using Israeli passports, without, so far as I know, any need to own it.

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By: Hadassah Haskale http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-103756 Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:04:41 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-103756 I heard and saw Livni field questions in my Jerusalem neighborhood community center recently and was impressed.Searching for a way to contact her to discuss what her approach to the thorny Jerusalem issue might be.My vision: a united city, capital to two states within a federation.Israel administration in the western part of the city, Palestinian in East Jerusalem.

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By: Charles-Jerusalem http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96907 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:00:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96907 There is a paradox with the title of the article.
I voted for Tsipi Livni at the last elections, I expected that she would win, and she did. But she went to the opposition when she was not able to build a coalition.
After that “silence radio”, she disapeared, letting the sharks of the right sharks act as if they were alone.
Suddenly she is back, with a new empty party, and the author calls that “opposition”.
No no no, opposition means that you have to do the work for which the electors elected you and act as a counter power, use the press, be on the field,…
She did not do any of that. She should vanish from the political scene and let the space for somebody more committed to his ideas, to the state and to the people, all the citizens, not only White Jewish Americano-European.
I will never vote for her again. Even Alei Yarok is more politically active if they were not that stoned.

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By: Gali http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96900 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:15:29 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96900 ” With all due respect to you Larry, I don’t follow your logic here. Tzipi Livni had over three years to show her mettle in the opposition.”
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With all due respect to you Sh, I dont think you can critizise Larry without stating who you are going to vote for .
So who will it be Sh ?
Not Meretz … you tore them to pieces on your now defunct forum .
Not Hadash …too Arab for you ;)
So who Sh ???????????

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By: Oscar http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96883 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:55:27 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96883 “I was refering to white abolitionists, not slaves. The abolitionists kept speaking when they were thought insane. But you are young”

And I was commenting on your suggestion to unilaterally withdraw even though past unilateral withdrawals brought more violence against Israel. So, I stand by my comment that to do so again would be INSANE.

As for your ability to repeat the suggestion? That is your business, it does not make YOU insane, it just makes you someone who only cares about what is good for the Palestinians and NOT the good of Israel. And therefore, Israel would be insane to listen to you.

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By: Oscar http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96873 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:10:57 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96873 “Can you understand why they are there, keep coming back? Or is it to just push Israel off the map? Really?”

Sigh … no Greg, listen to me carefully.

The demonstrators are just sheep. They get incited by their leaders. And it is easy for them to be incited because of the occupation. I grant you that.

But if the Palestinians as a people would be willing to accept and acknowledge Israel’s existence as a Jewish nation state then a peace deal could be concluded. There would be no more occupation and there would be two states for two peoples.

Do you think there would still be a need for the Palestinians to demonstrate then?

The problem is that their leaders are not willing to conclude a peace deal based on the basis of mutual recognition. The message I get from that is that they still claim that ALL the land belongs to Arabs and there is no room for a Jewish state. Heck, Hamas say so openly and they represent at least 50% of Palestinian opinion.

I wonder how Americans would deal with an enemy who would tell them that America has no right to exist?

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By: Oscar http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96866 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:44:13 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96866 “Israel is about 20% Arab. Shall they be relocated using baby language so they know they are inferior? You are young”

No Greg, where did you get that idea from? They are Israeli citizens.

Have you not heard the concept where a minority population can be equal citizens alonside a majority? Look at Britain. It has the Anglican religion as the state religion but Jews, Muslims Budhists live there too as citizens.

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By: XYZ http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96857 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 05:32:38 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96857 You apparently have never heard the song “Yerushalayim Shel Zahav” by Naomi Shemer which was written before the Six-Day War. It describes with great pathos the pain felt by Jews because we didn’t have Jerusalem. NAOMI SHEMER WAS NOT RELIGIOUS. The statement you made that only “religious Jews” care about Jerusalem shows a complete lack of understanding of how Jews, and more specifically Israeli Jews feel about Jerusalem, and Judaism in general. Like almost all the “Progressives” I encounter here and elsewhere, you seem to think that everyone in the world thinks like you do and has the same values. If you don’t think Jerusalem isn’t important, it’s just gotta be that everyone else feels the same way.

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By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/finally-israel-has-an-opposition-tzipi-livnis-hatnuah-party/61628/comment-page-1/#comment-96849 Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:44:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=61628#comment-96849 If you mean Arabs are people like Jews, having diverse, conflicting views, yes I think you are right.

I have always held and believed suicide bombing is an atrocity, and I think any nonviolent movement in the Bank must affirm so. I think the right of return in any global sense fictional and perverse; the Bank itself would not be able to absorb the millions to their new “home,” nor could the Israeli economy, irrespective of racial issues. Since the right of return is merely a verbal game, it is of no import. The issue of suicide bombing, which fuels some of your anger, methinks, is quite a different matter.

Bashing someone anonymously strikes me as cowardly. But, if race is the war, perhaps we have no names, only lables. Try and find a way to break out of us vs them. I will say the same to–”Arabs.”

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