Comments on: Fayyad and Abbas: A showdown or minor disagreement? http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Wed, 22 May 2013 08:53:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58473 Greg Pollock Thu, 26 Apr 2012 07:06:44 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58473 Caden: "if it was up to me I’d napalm the place." . "everybody in Gaza would love to get rid of Israel." . Stop taking early Torah so literally. I suspect many Gazans just want to raise their children with some hope of a better future. . I refuse your "us" and "them." Think more about that model. . Anyhow, reporting on internal conditions in the West Bank is a great thing. Thnks Aziz Caden:
“if it was up to me I’d napalm the place.”
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“everybody in Gaza would love to get rid of Israel.”
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Stop taking early Torah so literally. I suspect many Gazans just want to raise their children with some hope of a better future.
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I refuse your “us” and “them.” Think more about that model.
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Anyhow, reporting on internal conditions in the West Bank is a great thing. Thnks Aziz

]]> By: XYZ http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58444 XYZ Thu, 26 Apr 2012 03:19:15 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58444 Have to disagree with Caden regarding the settlements...they are vital to Israel and vital to any peace that may emerge somewhere in the distant future. Arabs live on both sides of the Green Line and so Jews must live on both sides of the Green Line. The settlements are the concretization of the Jewish historical connection and claim to the country. Jews have been living more or less continously in places in the West Bank and Gaza longer than Arabs have, up to 4000 years. Jews will continue to live in the settlements regardless of whatever political arrangement can ever be set up for the area. It is inconceivable that anyone who believes in peace can at one and the same time demand that all Jews be expelled from the east side of the Green Line and that Arabs be granted equal rights west of that Line. IMHO The ultimate status of the West Bank will be an Israeli-Palesitnian-Jordanian confederation, but this won't be possible until the current political Islamist surge burns itself out, which I estimate will take 20-30 years (that is the amount of time the Arab citizenry will come to realize that it is a failure, just like Nasserite Pan-Arabism was a failure). Peace will only come when a Jew can walk around freely in Hevron without a special security presence just like he can walk around Tel Aviv. Have to disagree with Caden regarding the settlements…they are vital to Israel and vital to any peace that may emerge somewhere in the distant future. Arabs live on both sides of the Green Line and so Jews must live on both sides of the Green Line. The settlements are the concretization of the Jewish historical connection and claim to the country. Jews have been living more or less continously in places in the West Bank and Gaza longer than Arabs have, up to 4000 years. Jews will continue to live in the settlements regardless of whatever political arrangement can ever be set up for the area. It is inconceivable that anyone who believes in peace can at one and the same time demand that all Jews be expelled from the east side of the Green Line and that Arabs be granted equal rights west of that Line.
IMHO The ultimate status of the West Bank will be an Israeli-Palesitnian-Jordanian confederation, but this won’t be possible until the current political Islamist surge burns itself out, which I estimate will take 20-30 years (that is the amount of time the Arab citizenry will come to realize that it is a failure, just like Nasserite Pan-Arabism was a failure).
Peace will only come when a Jew can walk around freely in Hevron without a special security presence just like he can walk around Tel Aviv.

]]> By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58316 Kolumn9 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:39:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58316 Gaza has already been cut off, but is anyone working on the technology to physically detach Gaza and have it float off to sea? Efforts in this direction sound more productive than peace talks with Hamas. Gaza has already been cut off, but is anyone working on the technology to physically detach Gaza and have it float off to sea? Efforts in this direction sound more productive than peace talks with Hamas.

]]> By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58315 Kolumn9 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:36:21 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58315 Maybe Abbas didn't invite Fayyad to his birthday party and Fayyad told his BFF Abed Rabbo that he doesn't like the outfit Abbas wore at the UN. . Who cares what they are fighting about? One has no viable plans and the other has no power. Put together they might make a decent leader, but alas, the technology hasn't yet been invented to combine a pragmatic Palestinian with a powerful Palestinian. Some day.. . Fine, you want to know what they are fighting about? Here is my guess. Abbas is rushing head first towards another confrontation with the Americans at the UN, just in time for election season in the US. He is doing this because he has no viable options and fears losing the initiative to Hamas or the Jordanians or heaven forbid to Netanyahu. Abed Rabbo and Fayyad think this is premature and is only going to lead the PA/PLO into another failure which would only worsen the position of the Palestinians even if they succeed at the UNGA. Confronting the Americans risks losing American aid, Israeli transfers of tax revenue and could lead to the collapse of the PA and a return to violence and in general complete anarchy in the Palestinian national movement. They probably want to wait after the American elections so that they can formulate a plan to return to negotiations, while in the meantime building infrastructure in the West Bank and political support in Europe and elsewhere. Maybe Abbas didn’t invite Fayyad to his birthday party and Fayyad told his BFF Abed Rabbo that he doesn’t like the outfit Abbas wore at the UN.
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Who cares what they are fighting about? One has no viable plans and the other has no power. Put together they might make a decent leader, but alas, the technology hasn’t yet been invented to combine a pragmatic Palestinian with a powerful Palestinian. Some day..
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Fine, you want to know what they are fighting about? Here is my guess. Abbas is rushing head first towards another confrontation with the Americans at the UN, just in time for election season in the US. He is doing this because he has no viable options and fears losing the initiative to Hamas or the Jordanians or heaven forbid to Netanyahu. Abed Rabbo and Fayyad think this is premature and is only going to lead the PA/PLO into another failure which would only worsen the position of the Palestinians even if they succeed at the UNGA. Confronting the Americans risks losing American aid, Israeli transfers of tax revenue and could lead to the collapse of the PA and a return to violence and in general complete anarchy in the Palestinian national movement. They probably want to wait after the American elections so that they can formulate a plan to return to negotiations, while in the meantime building infrastructure in the West Bank and political support in Europe and elsewhere.

]]> By: caden http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58304 caden Wed, 25 Apr 2012 01:33:13 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58304 Besides, that whole area has been a pain in the ass since the philistines were there. Besides, that whole area has been a pain in the ass since the philistines were there.

]]> By: caden http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58301 caden Wed, 25 Apr 2012 00:53:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58301 Noam, Vicky, sure I'd love to get rid of Gaza. And guess what, everybody in Gaza would love to get rid of Israel. I'd also like to have sex with a model tonight and play 1st base for the Yankees tomorrow. I deal in what's feasible. But to answer your question Noam. I honestly don't think that Israel in general and Netanyahu in particular have anyhting more then a day to day improvisational plan. Long term, they don't have a clue. But then again, neither do I. Noam, Vicky, sure I’d love to get rid of Gaza. And guess what, everybody in Gaza would love to get rid of Israel. I’d also like to have sex with a model tonight and play 1st base for the Yankees tomorrow. I deal in what’s feasible. But to answer your question Noam. I honestly don’t think that Israel in general and Netanyahu in particular have anyhting more then a day to day improvisational plan. Long term, they don’t have a clue. But then again, neither do I.

]]> By: caden http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58280 caden Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:33:55 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58280 Noam, come on, Sure if I could push a button and get rid of gaza, I'd do it. I'd also like to have sex with a super model tonight and play first base for the Yankees. But back on planet earth there are certain realities. Truthfully, I don't think Netanyahu specifically and Israel in general has the slightest idea of any long term plan. Which is definitely an Israeli trait. Great improvisation. Lousy long term strategic planning. Noam, come on, Sure if I could push a button and get rid of gaza, I’d do it. I’d also like to have sex with a super model tonight and play first base for the Yankees. But back on planet earth there are certain realities. Truthfully, I don’t think Netanyahu specifically and Israel in general has the slightest idea of any long term plan. Which is definitely an Israeli trait. Great improvisation. Lousy long term strategic planning.

]]> By: Vicky http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58277 Vicky Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:24:08 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58277 "And if it was up to me I’d napalm the place. But that’s just not possible." . Napalm is very last season. It's white phosphorous that's all the rage now, didn't you know? . If you take such evident satisfaction in the thought of using chemical weapons of that nature against one of the most densely populated places on earth, you are in no position to talk about Palestinians needing to meet anybody half way. It astounds me that people who support violence so openly and so cheerfully, often taking apparent pleasure in the thought, see a demilitarised Palestinian state ringed in by armed settlements as a perfectly reasonable request to make. . Why do you expect from Palestinians a personal commitment to peaceful living that you evidently don't expect from yourself? “And if it was up to me I’d napalm the place. But that’s just not possible.”
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Napalm is very last season. It’s white phosphorous that’s all the rage now, didn’t you know?
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If you take such evident satisfaction in the thought of using chemical weapons of that nature against one of the most densely populated places on earth, you are in no position to talk about Palestinians needing to meet anybody half way. It astounds me that people who support violence so openly and so cheerfully, often taking apparent pleasure in the thought, see a demilitarised Palestinian state ringed in by armed settlements as a perfectly reasonable request to make.
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Why do you expect from Palestinians a personal commitment to peaceful living that you evidently don’t expect from yourself?

]]> By: noam http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58274 noam Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:20:31 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58274 caden, you fail to answer me - what kind of future prospect for two states does bibi have in mind, considering his actions? and please don't answer about the palestinians' positions. you ask me to believe you "nobody likes the status quo". well - i don't. and yes, napalming gaza doesn't seem like a viable move. what a shame, huh? lovely guys, you and kahane. just lovely guys. caden, you fail to answer me – what kind of future prospect for two states does bibi have in mind, considering his actions? and please don’t answer about the palestinians’ positions.

you ask me to believe you “nobody likes the status quo”. well – i don’t.

and yes, napalming gaza doesn’t seem like a viable move. what a shame, huh? lovely guys, you and kahane. just lovely guys.

]]> By: caden http://972mag.com/fayyad-and-abbas-a-showdown-or-minor-disagreement/40096/comment-page-1/#comment-58271 caden Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:13:06 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=40096#comment-58271 Aziz, if your out there let me ask you this. In my opinion there are a minimum of two things that Israel can't possibly accept. The right of return and a hostile military force on the west bank ridge line. And if the Palestinians can't agree to that then all the blogs and talking and negotiations, is an exercise in mental masturbation. Aziz, if your out there let me ask you this. In my opinion there are a minimum of two things that Israel can’t possibly accept. The right of return and a hostile military force on the west bank ridge line. And if the Palestinians can’t agree to that then all the blogs and talking and negotiations, is an exercise in mental masturbation.

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