14 comments for ”Eyewitness describes Mustafa Tamimi’s last moments“

    
  1. Mashallah alayk ya Ibrahim. I am honored to be your sister against the occupation. I am so glad that so many people are writing about Mustafa and remembering his martyrdom. He did not die in vain.

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  3. While I consider the killing murder I don’t think publishing a one-sided account of what happened conducive to anything. They were engaged in rock throwing. Palestinian youth need to make a decision; either they are engaged in lightly armed rioting to protest the occupation, or in unarmed peaceful protest against the occupation. They can’t have both.
    I don’t hold Israel to a double moral standard and I will not hold a double standard to Palestinian resistance.

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  5. You clearly do. Where exactly are the other countries where throwing a rock gets you killed because, as far as I see, outside of Arab dictatorships, most of Africa and maybe China, security forces do not retaliate to rock throwing with live ammunition or point-blank tear gas cannisters. Rather they use shields to deflect the blows and then try and arrest the culprits.

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  7. @Philos,
    Every account is biased. As a primary witness this man’s account is important. I would consider it an omission if we would not listen to the people closest to the incident.

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  9. @Philos
    It’s a first hand account.
    Will we get an account from the Israeli army today, instead of tweets in poor taste or mentioning that he may have had a sling in his pocket or scarf over his face?

    What is known, is that a young man is dead. This man was murdered, shot in the face at close range. The soldier may not have intended to kill but the jeep did slow down just to fire at these two men.
    Men defending their land from theft and colonisation by religious fanatics.

    Not only did the soldier break Israeli law by firing at the head at such close range, but why didn’t the armoured jeep just drive away?

    And I do not doubt for one minute that the soldiers initial intention was to arrest Mustafa and that the delay indicated can be verified by those present.

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  11. thank you DirectRob and MarkW. It would be so good for us all if we could listen to each other and grieve the senseless losses to this conflict *together*, rather than seeing every single piece of news and making one side look good or bad. This isn’t a PR war; it’s real life, real lives; someone’s real son, brother, friend.

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  13. Hatherstone, you’re kidding right? The Chinese and African dictatorships don’t respond to stone throwing with brutal violence and live ammunition??? Where were you when the Olympic Torch was going around China in 2006 exactly? To this day no press are allowed in either Tibet or Xinjian provinces because of the ongoing murderous crackdown on the ethnic Tibetans and Xigurs. And don’t even get me started on Africa!

    Directrob, your point is well taken. Thank you.

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  15. @Philos: You misread Hatherstone’s comment. S/He is saying that unlike “Arab dictatorships, most of Africa, and maybe China,” the rest of the world doesn’t treat protesters this way.
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    That said, for you to refer to this as rioting is utterly contemptible. I will repeat again, as I’ve repeated so many times already, the army entered Nabi Saleh and began lobbing its tear gas at the protesters who were gathered there. They did this for an entire hour before anyone responded in self-defense. Yes, self-defense. Self-defense is not rioting.
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    When armed thugs enter your town and attack you with chemical weapons, you have a right to respond. For those who continue to say that Palestinians must be perfectly peaceful, especially those Israelis who “served” in occupied Palestine, go to Nabi Saleh yourself and put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, you are no position to be criticizing a people resisting Israeli oppression.

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  17. Sinjim, thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t understand Hatherstone’s comment. Sorry Hatherstone, clearly we were agreeing.

    However, I didn’t say that the Palestinian’s don’t have a right to resistance nor that they should sit idly by. Clearly they do from a legal and moral standpoint. My issue is with the semantics of peaceful protest versus lightly armed resistance. The moment one resorts to violence to resist then the word peaceful must be dropped. Perhaps rioting is the wrong term, however, throwing rocks does not fall into the “peaceful protest” category. I need only remind you of Ghandi’s famous salt tax protests in which him and his followers were mercilessly beaten by the British occupation forces but none of them lashed back in anger.

    To refer to stone throwing as peaceful protesting does a disservice to the Palestinian cause because hasbara trolls are quick to jump onto this clear non-sequitor.

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  19. You want to have an argument about whether it’s appropriate to refer to these peaceful protests as peaceful and you’re worried about non sequiturs? Are you kidding me?
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    @Philos, there is a difference between peaceful and nonviolent. These protests always start out peaceful. The participants do not go in throwing stones or attacking anyone. It always starts out as a march, in the case of Nabi Saleh, to the well that was stolen by the settler-colonists with the aid of the Israeli government.
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    However, when the Israeli army invades these villages and starts lobbing chemical weapons at them, the protesters engage in self-defense as is their right. What is this Israeli obsession with Palestinian non-violence, a principle that almost none of you adheres to when you join the occupation force? Why on Earth shouldn’t Palestinians defend themselves against these weekly military invasions?
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    Look, if you’re going to bring in comparisons with Gandhi’s tactics, if you’re saying that Palestinians must put themselves passively and bodily in the line of danger, you need to be willing to stand right next to them, not just morally but physically as well. You can’t sit at your desk, and complain about how Palestinians are doing it wrong. That’s the real disservice to the Palestinian cause.

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  21. @ Sinjim, if the Palestinians resist to an invasion of their village with violence then there ought to be an expectation for casualties. For example, if I resist an attacker non-violently and receieve a severe beating that attacker has lost all moral grounds for defending his actions. “You beat him up and he didn’t try to hit you back. Shame on you, you thug.” If I resist an attacker and hit him, no matter how feebly, then I’ve given my attacker space to defend himself morally.
    Witness: “You beat him up.”
    Attacker: “I was only going to shove him but then he tried to hit me so I had to beat him to prevent bodily harm to myself. I regret that I lost my cool. Him losing consciousness from my beating was an exceptional incident.”
    It doesn’t matter if this defense is soaked in lies and deceit because those who want to be sympathetic to the attacker will accept it.

    So to reiterate my point isn’t to say that Palestinians don’t have a right to self-defense. My point is that if that self-defense is violent then there are consequences to violence. None of this is to justify the occupation or the actions of the IDF. I am trying to make a moral argument rather than an operational one.

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  23. This tragic death of Mustapha Tamimi should never have happened. The fact that it has done so only confirms what 63/64 years of continual confrontation have inflicted upon this small section of the planet.
    Violence, in all its many shapes and guises, has become the most dominant and certainly the most visual form of coercion and reaction associated with the area in question.
    The entire matter seems to go from bad to worse on an almost daily basis. Never a week goes by without some new incident claiming the life or limb of whichever unfortunate it happens to be at the time.

    OK, this state of affairs is not exactly that unusual in warfare, ancient or modern. People have died and been injured in virtually all wars. A war without such casualties could hardly be classified as such. The major difference here is highlighted by the length of the struggle, it being quite the longest-running conflict within living memory.
    It is proving to be a very hard nut to crack and many have been those attempting to perform that task. But, sadly, to no avail.

    What is often forgotten in cracking a nut is that the majority of nuts are cracked open from the inside. They all contain within them the seeds of their own destruction.

    So should it be with this one.
    http://yorketowers.blogspot.com

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  25. @Philos: While I appreciate you walking me through the logic of non-violent protest, I already understand how it works.
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    You, like so many other anti-occupation Israelis, say that Palestinians have a right to self-defense but insist that they never use it. Why the hell not? Self-defense is moral.
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    It’s quite clear that no matter what Palestinians do, they will be criticized. If it’s not by the hasbara trolls, it’s by their Israeli sympathizers. Palestinians from Nabi Saleh, al Walajeh, Beit Ummar, Bil’in and other places don’t go out every Friday to protest in order to please you or make you, their occupiers, morally comfortable. This isn’t about you at all. They are doing this in defense of their own lives and livelihoods.
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    Like I said, you want non-violent protest? Go to Nabi Saleh and stand in the way of your army, yourself.

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  27. Sinjim, you’re right. If I’m going to talk the talk then I have to walk the walk. There’s no question about that and no amount of theoretical abstractions or petulant arguments about semantics and morality will change that.



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