Comments on: Egypt terminates deal to supply Israel with natural gas http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Wed, 22 May 2013 04:03:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: zayzafuna http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58425 zayzafuna Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:50:14 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58425 <em>Comment deleted.</em> Comment deleted.

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58407 max Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:06:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58407 The reason for which I asked about the new subject is simple: I think that criticism (that's 972's focus) is good, when it's constructive; otherwise, it's anarchism. And to be constructive, it has to be credible. To be credible, it has to slap more than one face. And then, who knows, the tone and interaction on the site may change! The reason for which I asked about the new subject is simple: I think that criticism (that’s 972′s focus) is good, when it’s constructive; otherwise, it’s anarchism. And to be constructive, it has to be credible. To be credible, it has to slap more than one face. And then, who knows, the tone and interaction on the site may change!

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58405 max Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:42:00 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58405 Lisa, I thought the debate was over! I agree with your points, but think that without the parts that may be read differently than you meant, it's little news. yes, governments officials also use their high seat to advance personal - not only governmental - agenda; yes, it's possible that although Israel allowed Egypt to introduce troops well above the limit set in the treaty into Sinai in order to calm the situation, Israel knows that they can't really do, hard as they try. Yes, "Both sides are sleazy and disingenuous". So I thought I'll link your last sentence to a subject that interests me. . More seriously: I find the practice of some of your colleagues - post & forget - quite haughty. I appreciate your involvement, even when I disagree Lisa, I thought the debate was over! I agree with your points, but think that without the parts that may be read differently than you meant, it’s little news. yes, governments officials also use their high seat to advance personal – not only governmental – agenda; yes, it’s possible that although Israel allowed Egypt to introduce troops well above the limit set in the treaty into Sinai in order to calm the situation, Israel knows that they can’t really do, hard as they try.
Yes, “Both sides are sleazy and disingenuous”.
So I thought I’ll link your last sentence to a subject that interests me.
.
More seriously: I find the practice of some of your colleagues – post & forget – quite haughty. I appreciate your involvement, even when I disagree

]]> By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58399 Lisa Goldman Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:20:24 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58399 Max, if you have to bring up censorship by the PA that means you are changing the subject. And if you're changing the subject then you're just not a good debater. So, again, I wasted my time. I must remember to stop replying to commenters. Max, if you have to bring up censorship by the PA that means you are changing the subject. And if you’re changing the subject then you’re just not a good debater. So, again, I wasted my time. I must remember to stop replying to commenters.

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58397 max Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:09:11 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58397 sorry, challenges with my keyboard :( sorry, challenges with my keyboard :(

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58396 max Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:08:02 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58396 Lisa, I assumed the misunderstanding were due to unclear wordings. You told me that no, I just can't read. You then ignore the content in Selznick’s comment and focus on whether or not you bought into the hype. o an agenda is a plausible explanation. I'm glad to her that I was wrong. . The Palestinian Authority is blocking critical websites - is this on your agenda when addressing government’s self-serving disinformation? It's only half a teaser... Lisa, I assumed the misunderstanding were due to unclear wordings. You told me that no, I just can’t read. You then ignore the content in Selznick’s comment and focus on whether or not you bought into the hype. o an agenda is a plausible explanation. I’m glad to her that I was wrong.
.
The Palestinian Authority is blocking critical websites – is this on your agenda when addressing government’s self-serving disinformation? It’s only half a teaser…

]]> By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58391 Lisa Goldman Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:37:18 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58391 Max - 1. The point is not whether or not Steinitz has influence. The point is that gov't officials like Steinitz cynically manipulate Israeli fears of Egypt in order to advance their own gains. The Egypt-Israel peace treaty is not and was not threatened. The Israeli government and SCAF have excellent relations. SCAF runs the show in Egypt, but occasionally it has to throw the public a bone. That is the political fallout of the ousting of Mubarak. 2. Egypt is not required to sell gas to Israel. Egypt is required to have a normal economic relationship with Israel. If someone who supplies me with a service decides to terminate that service, under normal rules of commerce I must accept that decision. 3. I am not interested in whether or not Israel is in arrears of payment insofar as ethics are concerned. I point out that there are various factors influencing this incident. On the one hand Egypt claims Israel is in arrears; but on the other hand, Israel says why should they pay, since gas has not been delivered regularly due to sabotage to the pipeline. Israel tries to blame Egypt for not protecting the pipeline, even though they know Sinai is a lawless zone over which the police and army have little control, and that this situation is exacerbated by the chaos of the revolution. Both you and Selznick seem determined to categorize my post as an expression of an agenda. That is your prerogative, of course, but you are seriously misreading my point. I am not interested in defending Egypt or Israel in this story. Both sides are sleazy and disingenuous. The point is to bring out the nuance and the information that is not reported in the mainstream media, which is blindly parroting AmPal and the government's self-serving disinformation. Max –

1. The point is not whether or not Steinitz has influence. The point is that gov’t officials like Steinitz cynically manipulate Israeli fears of Egypt in order to advance their own gains. The Egypt-Israel peace treaty is not and was not threatened. The Israeli government and SCAF have excellent relations. SCAF runs the show in Egypt, but occasionally it has to throw the public a bone. That is the political fallout of the ousting of Mubarak.

2. Egypt is not required to sell gas to Israel. Egypt is required to have a normal economic relationship with Israel. If someone who supplies me with a service decides to terminate that service, under normal rules of commerce I must accept that decision.

3. I am not interested in whether or not Israel is in arrears of payment insofar as ethics are concerned. I point out that there are various factors influencing this incident. On the one hand Egypt claims Israel is in arrears; but on the other hand, Israel says why should they pay, since gas has not been delivered regularly due to sabotage to the pipeline. Israel tries to blame Egypt for not protecting the pipeline, even though they know Sinai is a lawless zone over which the police and army have little control, and that this situation is exacerbated by the chaos of the revolution.

Both you and Selznick seem determined to categorize my post as an expression of an agenda. That is your prerogative, of course, but you are seriously misreading my point. I am not interested in defending Egypt or Israel in this story. Both sides are sleazy and disingenuous. The point is to bring out the nuance and the information that is not reported in the mainstream media, which is blindly parroting AmPal and the government’s self-serving disinformation.

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58388 max Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:25:43 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58388 I think that Selznick's post, despite the English, is quite understandable. Incidentally, it's much more logical than many other posts. So what do we have now: 1. Mofaz isn't in the government and Steinitz has no saying in this matter, while those that do - Netanyahu and Lieberman are playing down the incident. So no issue to start with. 2. Under the peace treaty, Egypt is required to sell gas to Israel. So the deal IS tightly related to the treaty 3. Egypt accuses Israel and Israel denies, but Lisa knows that Egypt is right. Altogether, a typical effort of applying one's agenda onto whatever you can under 'slight' modifications. But maybe it's only the readers that can't read English... unfortunately, had it been in Hebrew it'll have no readers I think that Selznick’s post, despite the English, is quite understandable. Incidentally, it’s much more logical than many other posts.
So what do we have now:
1. Mofaz isn’t in the government and Steinitz has no saying in this matter, while those that do – Netanyahu and Lieberman are playing down the incident.
So no issue to start with.
2. Under the peace treaty, Egypt is required to sell gas to Israel.
So the deal IS tightly related to the treaty
3. Egypt accuses Israel and Israel denies, but Lisa knows that Egypt is right.
Altogether, a typical effort of applying one’s agenda onto whatever you can under ‘slight’ modifications.
But maybe it’s only the readers that can’t read English… unfortunately, had it been in Hebrew it’ll have no readers

]]> By: Lisa Goldman http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58377 Lisa Goldman Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:23:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58377 Selznick, if you think I am buying into hype then you have seriously misunderstood my post. Perhaps you are confused because English is not your first language. I can understand that. Selznick, if you think I am buying into hype then you have seriously misunderstood my post. Perhaps you are confused because English is not your first language. I can understand that.

]]> By: O.selznick http://972mag.com/egypt-terminates-deal-to-supply-israel-with-natural-gas/43180/comment-page-1/#comment-58376 O.selznick Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:19:52 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=43180#comment-58376 נתניהו: ביטול הסכם הגז - בגלל סכסוך עסקי http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/1.1692216 lisa, Yossi Miaman's lobby is trying to make it more than it is, Bibi ( lucky for us this time) is not on Maiman's payroll (hes in Sheldon's pocket) so hes treating it like it should be treated. dont believe the hype, even if it fits with your agenda, Israel is not ruin the status quo with Egypt about this. Israel's interest in a peaceful border with Eygpt goes way beyond gas and Yossi Maiman's profits. and just to set the record straight - yes, the Fianance Minister is a government offical, but that does not make his statments automatically official israeli statements let alone his words dont set official israeli foreign policy. in a perfect government, it would be the foreign minister setting out israel's foreign policy, in israel things a abit complicated since Liberman is baiscally Persona non grata in the US and Western Europe - so we have the defence minister and prime minister mostly in charge of foreign policy while Liberman just rants on the side. anyway, regardless of what Stienitz says its not under his authority. although I can understand why its confuesing you. נתניהו: ביטול הסכם הגז – בגלל סכסוך עסקי

http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/1.1692216

lisa, Yossi Miaman’s lobby is trying to make it more than it is, Bibi ( lucky for us this time) is not on Maiman’s payroll (hes in Sheldon’s pocket) so hes treating it like it should be treated.
dont believe the hype, even if it fits with your agenda, Israel is not ruin the status quo with Egypt about this. Israel’s interest in a peaceful border with Eygpt goes way beyond gas and Yossi Maiman’s profits.
and just to set the record straight – yes, the Fianance Minister is a government offical, but that does not make his statments automatically official israeli statements let alone his words dont set official israeli foreign policy.

in a perfect government, it would be the foreign minister setting out israel’s foreign policy, in israel things a abit complicated since Liberman is baiscally Persona non grata in the US and Western Europe – so we have the defence minister and prime minister mostly in charge of foreign policy while Liberman just rants on the side.

anyway, regardless of what Stienitz says its not under his authority.
although I can understand why its confuesing you.

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