Comments on: East Jerusalemites appeal to UN for help with garbage collection http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:35:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: aristeides http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47383 aristeides Thu, 08 Mar 2012 02:44:21 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47383 HEY JAZZY - still awaiting your response to my question - "What happens when E Jerusalemites vote in municipal elections and the city keeps withholding services?" What do they do then? Do they get to bomb Nir Barkat's office? HEY JAZZY – still awaiting your response to my question – “What happens when E Jerusalemites vote in municipal elections and the city keeps withholding services?” What do they do then? Do they get to bomb Nir Barkat’s office?

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47204 Jazzy Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:34:22 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47204 MYA: hey there! Still waiting for your response: what do YOU think is the fastest way to improve services and infrastructure in East Jerusalem? MYA: hey there! Still waiting for your response: what do YOU think is the fastest way to improve services and infrastructure in East Jerusalem?

]]> By: aristeides http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47108 aristeides Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:00:32 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47108 Jazzy's soi-disant "substantive arguments" amount to nothing but name-dropping. Chomsky. Finkelstein. . "Argumentum ad verecundiam" - a logical fallacy. That's all he's got. Jazzy’s soi-disant “substantive arguments” amount to nothing but name-dropping. Chomsky. Finkelstein.

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“Argumentum ad verecundiam” – a logical fallacy. That’s all he’s got.

]]> By: Vicky http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47081 Vicky Tue, 06 Mar 2012 10:37:37 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47081 "To observe that Noam Chomsky is more respected that Vicky the anonymous random person (just like me) is not a personal attack, nor is characterizing her argument as pathetic." . "GROW THE F*CK UP, GET OVER YOUR YOURSELF, AND STOP PRETENDING TO BELIEVE RUBBISH so you can indulge yourself. Find another object of affection for your bleeding heart," is pretty personal. So are the constant suggestions that 'deep down' I know that what you are saying is true, but am just 'pretending' to believe otherwise. This sort of accusatory clairvoyance seems to be your last resort in any debate, before you start asking that people who disagree with you respond to you 'substantively'. The only way attacks like these can be dealt with substantively is for me to come offline, make a cup of tea, and go to work. . Sinjim - that you for the kind words. “To observe that Noam Chomsky is more respected that Vicky the anonymous random person (just like me) is not a personal attack, nor is characterizing her argument as pathetic.”
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“GROW THE F*CK UP, GET OVER YOUR YOURSELF, AND STOP PRETENDING TO BELIEVE RUBBISH so you can indulge yourself. Find another object of affection for your bleeding heart,” is pretty personal. So are the constant suggestions that ‘deep down’ I know that what you are saying is true, but am just ‘pretending’ to believe otherwise. This sort of accusatory clairvoyance seems to be your last resort in any debate, before you start asking that people who disagree with you respond to you ‘substantively’. The only way attacks like these can be dealt with substantively is for me to come offline, make a cup of tea, and go to work.
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Sinjim – that you for the kind words.

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47027 Jazzy Tue, 06 Mar 2012 05:32:34 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47027 SINJIM: even if you were typing your comments from a refugee camp, which you're not, you still have not made an argument. I've actually made an argument about hypocrisy, and all you've got is "I'm Palestinian so I decide that Jazzy is wrong." Try again... SINJIM: even if you were typing your comments from a refugee camp, which you’re not, you still have not made an argument. I’ve actually made an argument about hypocrisy, and all you’ve got is “I’m Palestinian so I decide that Jazzy is wrong.” Try again…

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47026 Jazzy Tue, 06 Mar 2012 05:29:25 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47026 MYA: To observe that Noam Chomsky is more respected that Vicky the anonymous random person (just like me) is not a personal attack, nor is characterizing her argument as pathetic. You still haven't responded to my substantive question about solving the garbage problem - you ask and ask for substance but when it shows up, you chime in to accuse me of personal attacks. Not a very honest or adult way to debate someone. MYA: To observe that Noam Chomsky is more respected that Vicky the anonymous random person (just like me) is not a personal attack, nor is characterizing her argument as pathetic. You still haven’t responded to my substantive question about solving the garbage problem – you ask and ask for substance but when it shows up, you chime in to accuse me of personal attacks. Not a very honest or adult way to debate someone.

]]> By: Sinjim http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47024 Sinjim Tue, 06 Mar 2012 05:19:57 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47024 Since the concern troll is presuming to speak in the name of Palestinians, I think a word from an actual Palestinian is in order. . @Vicky: I just want you to know that I believe that you are one of the most compassionate and considerate solidarity activists I've ever come across in real life and online. I think you do a beautiful job of explaining and defending the rights and desires of the Palestinian people. . If someone portraying himself as an "ally" wants to call you an "enemy" of the Palestinian people, we could do with a lot more enemies like you and a lot less allies like him. :) Since the concern troll is presuming to speak in the name of Palestinians, I think a word from an actual Palestinian is in order.
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@Vicky: I just want you to know that I believe that you are one of the most compassionate and considerate solidarity activists I’ve ever come across in real life and online. I think you do a beautiful job of explaining and defending the rights and desires of the Palestinian people.
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If someone portraying himself as an “ally” wants to call you an “enemy” of the Palestinian people, we could do with a lot more enemies like you and a lot less allies like him. :)

]]> By: mya guarnieri http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47023 mya guarnieri Tue, 06 Mar 2012 05:10:26 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47023 jazzy: no personal attacks on my channel. i will not tolerate you berating readers with statements like "well you're nobody" and "really pathetic," etc. when you have to resort to such name-calling, that means that your argument needs work. so go work on your argument and your talking points and come back ready for a proper discussion. jazzy: no personal attacks on my channel. i will not tolerate you berating readers with statements like “well you’re nobody” and “really pathetic,” etc. when you have to resort to such name-calling, that means that your argument needs work. so go work on your argument and your talking points and come back ready for a proper discussion.

]]> By: Jazzy http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47012 Jazzy Tue, 06 Mar 2012 04:07:53 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47012 "As for whether my work helps them or not – they are the judges of that." If you're not interested is taking any moral position on anything YOURSELF, WHY ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING WITH ME? So...you show up to a camp, do stuff there, and then decide AFTERWARD whether you're helping anyone? You are a very confused person - too afraid of being politically incorrect so you abdicate moral reasoning altogether. But really, deep down, like I've said and will keep saying, you know that your position is totally bankrupt. The refugees are NEVER going back. They will NEVER leave Lebanon or Syria or Jordan. You know this, I know this, MYA knows this, the refugees know it. The 'situation' of them going home will NEVER arise. Everyone KNOWS this. GROW THE F*CK UP, GET OVER YOUR YOURSELF, AND STOP PRETENDING TO BELIEVE RUBBISH so you can indulge yourself. Find another object of affection for your bleeding heart. “As for whether my work helps them or not – they are the judges of that.”
If you’re not interested is taking any moral position on anything YOURSELF, WHY ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING WITH ME? So…you show up to a camp, do stuff there, and then decide AFTERWARD whether you’re helping anyone? You are a very confused person – too afraid of being politically incorrect so you abdicate moral reasoning altogether. But really, deep down, like I’ve said and will keep saying, you know that your position is totally bankrupt. The refugees are NEVER going back. They will NEVER leave Lebanon or Syria or Jordan. You know this, I know this, MYA knows this, the refugees know it. The ‘situation’ of them going home will NEVER arise. Everyone KNOWS this. GROW THE F*CK UP, GET OVER YOUR YOURSELF, AND STOP PRETENDING TO BELIEVE RUBBISH so you can indulge yourself. Find another object of affection for your bleeding heart.

]]> By: Vicky http://972mag.com/east-jerusalemites-appeal-to-un-for-help-with-garbage/37010/comment-page-2/#comment-47001 Vicky Tue, 06 Mar 2012 03:06:05 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=37010#comment-47001 "You’re not going to sit there and let people murder their daughters are you? I didn’t think so – so drop the moral relativism crap." . I'm not going to sit there and let people murder their daughters, but I'm also not going to entertain the idea that child murder and support for BDS are comparable. The whole BDS campaign is rooted in the idea that everyone has a right to life, dignity, and justice, and that BDS is an effective non-violent way of securing these things. You might disagree on its efficacy, but you can hardly compare it to murder. . Out of interest, did you make these same arguments about the BDS campaign in South Africa, and are you prepared to make it against Tibetan freedom and human rights groups that call for a cultural boycott of China? . "wow you really have no integrity at all – you know perfectly well if you were born a refugee in Lebanon you’d want rights in Lebanon, not to waste your life fighting for nothing." . And as I pointed out in my above comment, it's perfectly possible to advocate for the RoR *and* to fight for refugee welfare in Lebanon. It's not a question of either-or, because these things aren't mutually exclusive - and if you take the trouble to listen to refugees in Lebanon, you'll find they're asking for both. My comment on us not knowing what we would do unless we were refugees was specifically related to return. If I were a refugee, I don't know whether I would want to stay in my host country, or go home. But I would like to be sure that the international community would protect my right to make that choice for myself, should the situation ever arise. . "With friends like you Palestinians don’t need enemies. Really pathetic simply-minded morally bankrupt crap this is. They should really loathe you. And the ones who properly understand who screwed they are, do." . They live under occupation and they suffer the effects of dispossession on a daily basis. I trust them to 'properly understand' what's hurting them and why, without having to be taught. As for whether my work helps them or not - they are the judges of that. “You’re not going to sit there and let people murder their daughters are you? I didn’t think so – so drop the moral relativism crap.”
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I’m not going to sit there and let people murder their daughters, but I’m also not going to entertain the idea that child murder and support for BDS are comparable. The whole BDS campaign is rooted in the idea that everyone has a right to life, dignity, and justice, and that BDS is an effective non-violent way of securing these things. You might disagree on its efficacy, but you can hardly compare it to murder.
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Out of interest, did you make these same arguments about the BDS campaign in South Africa, and are you prepared to make it against Tibetan freedom and human rights groups that call for a cultural boycott of China?
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“wow you really have no integrity at all – you know perfectly well if you were born a refugee in Lebanon you’d want rights in Lebanon, not to waste your life fighting for nothing.”
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And as I pointed out in my above comment, it’s perfectly possible to advocate for the RoR *and* to fight for refugee welfare in Lebanon. It’s not a question of either-or, because these things aren’t mutually exclusive – and if you take the trouble to listen to refugees in Lebanon, you’ll find they’re asking for both. My comment on us not knowing what we would do unless we were refugees was specifically related to return. If I were a refugee, I don’t know whether I would want to stay in my host country, or go home. But I would like to be sure that the international community would protect my right to make that choice for myself, should the situation ever arise.
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“With friends like you Palestinians don’t need enemies. Really pathetic simply-minded morally bankrupt crap this is. They should really loathe you. And the ones who properly understand who screwed they are, do.”
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They live under occupation and they suffer the effects of dispossession on a daily basis. I trust them to ‘properly understand’ what’s hurting them and why, without having to be taught. As for whether my work helps them or not – they are the judges of that.

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