Comments on: Mob against migrants: How far can the violence go? http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:21:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: max http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63387 max Sun, 27 May 2012 09:15:28 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63387 Greg, I agree with you. I presume that you're so aware of this risk due to the extent to which this way of thinking has reached in your corner of the world, Arizona. I hope that as you see hope for Arizona, you see the same also for Israel, and that you spend as much time there explaining the parallels and historical analogies Greg, I agree with you.
I presume that you’re so aware of this risk due to the extent to which this way of thinking has reached in your corner of the world, Arizona.
I hope that as you see hope for Arizona, you see the same also for Israel, and that you spend as much time there explaining the parallels and historical analogies

]]> By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63220 Greg Pollock Sat, 26 May 2012 05:00:29 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63220 I have read the JP "Deportation Now!" op ed by Danny D, link provided by Rowan, above. The piece frames everything within a security metaphor, dubs the illegal immigrants "infiltrators," thereby implicitly putting them in the same class with militants who, strangely, have not ingressed into Israel as far as anyone can tell, although tens of thousands of Africans have. (Which suggests to me the causal model of bombers is not operative at present.) By speaking of the Jewish and democratic State he marginalizes Arab Israeli citizens, placing them in an ambiguous danger category with the African immigrants. He even makes a side reference to Iran. "The extreme left," out only to make political points, must be ignored. Fellow travelers with infiltration. There is not a word of the mob violence or how it started, only of the "high crime rate" of the infiltrators. . When making historical anaologies, one can be destroyed by those who insessantly note where the paralell fails. Whatever has grown in Israel is not direct fascism. It is not direct McCarthism--although the black civil rights movement, after the titular fall of McCarthism, was sometimes described as a dupe for the Soviet Union. It is something new, where every event with predefined others is framed as a war against the State. It equates the State with Jewishness itself and has no wish to rule a greater world, just purge until home harmony can be acheived. (Fully unlike Nazi ideology.) When I read such as DD this image always comes to me: of people raped, but with power, determined to create a future where it will never happen again. Every fear and travail is placed in this metaphor--we will define those who would hurt you and protect you from them. To be against State polivy, against IDF action, against the "smart laws" (as DD calls them) of the Knesset, is to be against the very manifestation of the Jewish people. In this world a right exists only if the State says it does, for the State is the assay of all noticed pain. The political organs of the State determine what you must never forget--and what you must forget. In such an ideology the courts must fall, must become servants of State protection. An individual is defined by the Knesset (your Speaker of the Knesset has said "the people are the Knesset and the Knesset is the people"). In the US, the constitutional imperative of juries prevents such a direct equation of State and people, although the ideology at times rises. . Whatever label you use, the evolved Western rule of law will have to fall. When damage exists only if recognized by the Knesset which defines the State, the will of the Knesset cannot be checked. Rights, when first articulated, are not a majoritarian phenomenon--their very articulation begins a struggle. But the polity of the present Knesset has usurped even this struggle in the right of a democratic and Jewish State. This right, no matter where it leads in actualization, will define all possible secular happiness. You are being told there is nothing for you to fight for. Which is why 972 is hated. You won't bend to the truth of Knesset abstract. . As long as this constitutional crisis can be localized to marginalized victims, this ideology will grow. Israeli Jews must come to see what it will mean to have the Knesset define what they are and can be. So I see. I have read the JP “Deportation Now!” op ed by Danny D, link provided by Rowan, above. The piece frames everything within a security metaphor, dubs the illegal immigrants “infiltrators,” thereby implicitly putting them in the same class with militants who, strangely, have not ingressed into Israel as far as anyone can tell, although tens of thousands of Africans have. (Which suggests to me the causal model of bombers is not operative at present.) By speaking of the Jewish and democratic State he marginalizes Arab Israeli citizens, placing them in an ambiguous danger category with the African immigrants. He even makes a side reference to Iran. “The extreme left,” out only to make political points, must be ignored. Fellow travelers with infiltration. There is not a word of the mob violence or how it started, only of the “high crime rate” of the infiltrators.
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When making historical anaologies, one can be destroyed by those who insessantly note where the paralell fails. Whatever has grown in Israel is not direct fascism. It is not direct McCarthism–although the black civil rights movement, after the titular fall of McCarthism, was sometimes described as a dupe for the Soviet Union. It is something new, where every event with predefined others is framed as a war against the State. It equates the State with Jewishness itself and has no wish to rule a greater world, just purge until home harmony can be acheived. (Fully unlike Nazi ideology.) When I read such as DD this image always comes to me: of people raped, but with power, determined to create a future where it will never happen again. Every fear and travail is placed in this metaphor–we will define those who would hurt you and protect you from them. To be against State polivy, against IDF action, against the “smart laws” (as DD calls them) of the Knesset, is to be against the very manifestation of the Jewish people. In this world a right exists only if the State says it does, for the State is the assay of all noticed pain. The political organs of the State determine what you must never forget–and what you must forget. In such an ideology the courts must fall, must become servants of State protection. An individual is defined by the Knesset (your Speaker of the Knesset has said “the people are the Knesset and the Knesset is the people”). In the US, the constitutional imperative of juries prevents such a direct equation of State and people, although the ideology at times rises.
.
Whatever label you use, the evolved Western rule of law will have to fall. When damage exists only if recognized by the Knesset which defines the State, the will of the Knesset cannot be checked. Rights, when first articulated, are not a majoritarian phenomenon–their very articulation begins a struggle. But the polity of the present Knesset has usurped even this struggle in the right of a democratic and Jewish State. This right, no matter where it leads in actualization, will define all possible secular happiness. You are being told there is nothing for you to fight for. Which is why 972 is hated. You won’t bend to the truth of Knesset abstract.
.
As long as this constitutional crisis can be localized to marginalized victims, this ideology will grow. Israeli Jews must come to see what it will mean to have the Knesset define what they are and can be. So I see.

]]> By: kachi http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63096 kachi Fri, 25 May 2012 13:14:02 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63096 How sad! History is so easily forgotten. Weren't the israelites hidden by many people during the holocaust? Was this not the same way hitler incited Germany against them? Sadly they are doing to others what they cried over. How sad! History is so easily forgotten. Weren’t the israelites hidden by many people during the holocaust? Was this not the same way hitler incited Germany against them? Sadly they are doing to others what they cried over.

]]> By: Bronxman http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63091 Bronxman Fri, 25 May 2012 12:09:40 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63091 The similarities with Europe in the 1930s and the Southern states in the U.S. for about 100 years (not counting slavery up until 1865) is unsettling. I'm sure that the Ku Klux Klan is eyeing Israel as fertile grounds for opening up a branch office. The similarities with Europe in the 1930s and the Southern states in the U.S. for about 100 years (not counting slavery up until 1865) is unsettling. I’m sure that the Ku Klux Klan is eyeing Israel as fertile grounds for opening up a branch office.

]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63070 Rowan Berkeley Fri, 25 May 2012 10:43:57 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63070 DD has a resounding "they must go" type piece in the JPost today. It points out in the bio that he is deputy speaker of the Knesset and chairman of World Likud. He is also the founder and chairman of something called “Deportation Now!”, an extra-parliamentary group which I dare say is capable of organising a few demonstrations of its own. Interestingly, he pays tribute to "the leadership of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu." http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=271374 DD has a resounding “they must go” type piece in the JPost today. It points out in the bio that he is deputy speaker of the Knesset and chairman of World Likud. He is also the founder and chairman of something called “Deportation Now!”, an extra-parliamentary group which I dare say is capable of organising a few demonstrations of its own. Interestingly, he pays tribute to “the leadership of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu.”
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=271374

]]> By: Greg Pollock http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63068 Greg Pollock Fri, 25 May 2012 10:30:42 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63068 "Why do I need to parade the numbers as a defense against mob violence? We have a mechanism for dealing with crime and it’s called the law." . And from Kolumn, refering to MK Ben-Ari: "For these people Israel is a tool, not a state with laws." . You are losing the rule of law. For many years now the executive has been ignoring the law as it sees fit. The High Court seems to have little direct enforcement power, only the "power" to cajole. Ben-Ari and Danny D are simply the far extensions of executive logic. Bibi will reel them in, but he employs the same disregard of the law in other matters. This will be their undoing. Someday. . Fortitude. “Why do I need to parade the numbers as a defense against mob violence? We have a mechanism for dealing with crime and it’s called the law.”
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And from Kolumn, refering to MK Ben-Ari: “For these people Israel is a tool, not a state with laws.”
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You are losing the rule of law. For many years now the executive has been ignoring the law as it sees fit. The High Court seems to have little direct enforcement power, only the “power” to cajole. Ben-Ari and Danny D are simply the far extensions of executive logic. Bibi will reel them in, but he employs the same disregard of the law in other matters. This will be their undoing. Someday.
.
Fortitude.

]]> By: zelda harris http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63055 zelda harris Fri, 25 May 2012 08:58:18 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63055 A very sound column and I agree with every word This is not a new phenomena I am close to people living nr tacahana merkazit who for a year at least have been begging me to get"someone" interested. The rape and mugging has been going on but mostly of foreign workers or helpless old people.only now that the genie is out of the bottle can we see the violence which has been under the surface for ages and the police knew about it all. Heads should fall but they wont. The Israeli sickness is that no one in authority is ever accountable and the public always pays the price.Eli Ishai one of the most culpable is saying"I told yu so" we know what his attitude is to any non jew!!!!! These talkbacks and comments will do nothing we need to organise if we are to save our democracy and we must not forget for a minute the Israeli arab population who may seem to be on a back burner but are hurting inside and dont feel "at home" in their home.Shabbat Shalom peace to each and everyone who lives in "the land"on this holiday of"converts"Zelda A very sound column and I agree with every word This is not a new phenomena I am close to people living nr tacahana merkazit who for a year at least have been begging me to get”someone” interested. The rape and mugging has been going on but mostly of foreign workers or helpless old people.only now that the genie is out of the bottle can we see the violence which has been under the surface for ages and the police knew about it all. Heads should fall but they wont. The Israeli sickness is that no one in authority is ever accountable and the public always pays the price.Eli Ishai one of the most culpable is saying”I told yu so” we know what his attitude is to any non jew!!!!! These talkbacks and comments will do nothing we need to organise if we are to save our democracy and we must not forget for a minute the Israeli arab population who may seem to be on a back burner but are hurting inside and dont feel “at home” in their home.Shabbat Shalom peace to each and everyone who lives in “the land”on this holiday of”converts”Zelda

]]> By: wavettore http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-63022 wavettore Fri, 25 May 2012 04:08:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-63022 Parallel mirrors We live our life led by our perceptions as if they were many small mirrors glued on our skin that reflects one singular mixture of colors and distinguishes our Individuality. Imagine many broken mirrors suspended in air that slowly spin, as to look around. Each perception interacts with those outside like a mirror in front of other mirrors. Each small mirror learns to recognize those in front and to also distinguish Oneself from the rest. Self recognition becomes awareness of Ego. Only when Two mirrors become parallel and at one precise distance they can look at each other and not recognize who is who. The Two opposite mirrors can each identify within the frame of the other to lose themselves in their reflected image ...... and to gain a new Respect for each other. The Respect for Equality would occur just like this, with a change of perceptions. www.wavevolution.org Parallel mirrors
We live our life led by our perceptions as if they were many small mirrors glued on our skin that reflects one singular mixture of colors and distinguishes our Individuality.
Imagine many broken mirrors suspended in air that slowly spin, as to look around.
Each perception interacts with those outside like a mirror in front of other mirrors.
Each small mirror learns to recognize those in front and to also distinguish Oneself from the rest.
Self recognition becomes awareness of Ego.
Only when Two mirrors become parallel and at one precise distance they can look at each other and not recognize who is who.
The Two opposite mirrors can each identify within the frame of the other to lose themselves in their reflected image …… and to gain a new Respect for each other.
The Respect for Equality would occur just like this, with a change of perceptions.

http://www.wavevolution.org

]]> By: max http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-62967 max Thu, 24 May 2012 21:09:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-62967 It's not the degree of (mostly verbal) violence in Israel that's problematic, it's its acceptance as a norm. Just recently, 8 members (out of 9) of a religious family died in a car accident. A renowned car journalist found no better than attacking the dead for having so many kids, and asking how could primitive people with 7 kids be expected to know how to drive . It’s not the degree of (mostly verbal) violence in Israel that’s problematic, it’s its acceptance as a norm. Just recently, 8 members (out of 9) of a religious family died in a car accident. A renowned car journalist found no better than attacking the dead for having so many kids, and asking how could primitive people with 7 kids be expected to know how to drive
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]]> By: Rowan Berkeley http://972mag.com/demonstration-against-migrants-how-far-can-the-violence-go/46689/comment-page-1/#comment-62963 Rowan Berkeley Thu, 24 May 2012 20:54:56 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=46689#comment-62963 Did you know Rami Fortis made a surrealist movie about Kach once? At least, I think that's what it is: http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/israeli-surrealism-with-rami-fortis/ Did you know Rami Fortis made a surrealist movie about Kach once? At least, I think that’s what it is:
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/israeli-surrealism-with-rami-fortis/

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