Comments on: Demonizing the Nakba http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Fri, 24 May 2013 17:27:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: david http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-62378 david Tue, 22 May 2012 00:20:31 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-62378 The fact is that 99% of Israeli Arabs are disloyal citizens who identify with the country's enemies, refuse to serve in the military (of Israel's, anyway). They themselves self-identify as Palestinians with an Israeli passport. Most refuse to learn or speak Hebrew. They are a fifth column. The fact is that 99% of Israeli Arabs are disloyal citizens who identify with the country’s enemies, refuse to serve in the military (of Israel’s, anyway). They themselves self-identify as Palestinians with an Israeli passport. Most refuse to learn or speak Hebrew. They are a fifth column.

]]> By: Alex http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-62220 Alex Mon, 21 May 2012 01:16:29 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-62220 Wow, Larry, what fantasy world are you living in? If the Naqba is the catastrophe then someone is guilty (the Jews) of making victims (the Arabs). What happens to people who are guilty of crimes? They get punished. That's what the Naqba represents to the Arabs -- Jews are guilty of unspeakable crimes (you know, like defending ourselves from 5 invading armies who would have committed GENOCIDE if they could). But back to the Arab perspective. How exactly does a wrong get righted, so to speak, and the bad guys punished for their crimes? The Right of Return, meaning the end of Israel. When they call for the Right of Return they are calling for the end of Israel. The two things are synonymous. Larry, you are truly living in a dream world. Wow, Larry, what fantasy world are you living in? If the Naqba is the catastrophe then someone is guilty (the Jews) of making victims (the Arabs). What happens to people who are guilty of crimes? They get punished. That’s what the Naqba represents to the Arabs — Jews are guilty of unspeakable crimes (you know, like defending ourselves from 5 invading armies who would have committed GENOCIDE if they could).

But back to the Arab perspective. How exactly does a wrong get righted, so to speak, and the bad guys punished for their crimes? The Right of Return, meaning the end of Israel. When they call for the Right of Return they are calling for the end of Israel. The two things are synonymous.

Larry, you are truly living in a dream world.

]]> By: Larry Derfner http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61807 Larry Derfner Fri, 18 May 2012 06:31:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61807 K9, you've said Israeli Arabs are out to destroy Israel, but you haven't shown it - except to say that people who think Israel should not be a Jewish state are out to destroy it. I think a lot of people who oppose Jewish statehood are, in fact, out to destroy the country, but Israeli Arabs aren't among them. There is a huge difference between their attitude toward Israel and that of Palestinians in Gaza/WBank - in word and deed. They live with us and they want to go on living with us - they just want a fairer shake, and they do not want to be told they can't mourn over their tragedies or be forced to admit that they themsselves caused it. If a Palestinian state is ever formed, they will stay here - even if they could take their land with them, they will stay here. This is not my imagination, this is what they say. Their words and deeds contradict your view of them. K9, you’ve said Israeli Arabs are out to destroy Israel, but you haven’t shown it – except to say that people who think Israel should not be a Jewish state are out to destroy it. I think a lot of people who oppose Jewish statehood are, in fact, out to destroy the country, but Israeli Arabs aren’t among them. There is a huge difference between their attitude toward Israel and that of Palestinians in Gaza/WBank – in word and deed. They live with us and they want to go on living with us – they just want a fairer shake, and they do not want to be told they can’t mourn over their tragedies or be forced to admit that they themsselves caused it. If a Palestinian state is ever formed, they will stay here – even if they could take their land with them, they will stay here. This is not my imagination, this is what they say. Their words and deeds contradict your view of them.

]]> By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61777 Kolumn9 Thu, 17 May 2012 23:14:34 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61777 Larry, You are changing the topic, aren't you? I never called anyone a traitor or a terrorist. One can be a non-Zionist without supporting a campaign to eliminate Israel, like BDS. The Nakba Day commemorations by Israeli Arabs can not possibly be separated, as you have tried, from those by their brethren in the West Bank and Gaza and whose narrative the majority of Israeli Arabs have adopted. And no, I don't have to show a terror campaign to demonstrate that there are prominent Israeli Arabs that wish to eliminate Israel. That which you have requested, I have done. Larry, You are changing the topic, aren’t you? I never called anyone a traitor or a terrorist. One can be a non-Zionist without supporting a campaign to eliminate Israel, like BDS. The Nakba Day commemorations by Israeli Arabs can not possibly be separated, as you have tried, from those by their brethren in the West Bank and Gaza and whose narrative the majority of Israeli Arabs have adopted. And no, I don’t have to show a terror campaign to demonstrate that there are prominent Israeli Arabs that wish to eliminate Israel. That which you have requested, I have done.

]]> By: Larry Derfner http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61776 Larry Derfner Thu, 17 May 2012 23:05:20 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61776 No, you haven't provided anything. Show me the Nakba demonstrations where they call for the destruction of Israel, where they burn Israeli flags. Show me the terror campaign. Show me anything except your delusions. For you, anybody who isn't a Zionist is a traitor. That's the extent of your evidence. I'm replying to you in your own nasty tone - change it or comment someplace else. No, you haven’t provided anything. Show me the Nakba demonstrations where they call for the destruction of Israel, where they burn Israeli flags. Show me the terror campaign. Show me anything except your delusions. For you, anybody who isn’t a Zionist is a traitor. That’s the extent of your evidence. I’m replying to you in your own nasty tone – change it or comment someplace else.

]]> By: Kolumn9 http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61753 Kolumn9 Thu, 17 May 2012 20:17:51 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61753 Larry, you asked me to show you Israeli Arabs that desire to eliminate the state of Israel. THIS I HAVE PROVIDED TO YOU. . The BDS movement is fighting against the existence of Israel. This is so obvious that even anti-Israeli analysts admit it. Those that support its program are in the same boat. . Who said anything about violence or the Haredim? Don't try to change the topic. You asked for Israeli Arabs that want to eliminate Israel and I HAVE PROVIDED THAT FOR YOU. . We are talking about the commemoration of Nakba Day and your claim was that Israeli Arabs do not mean to mark this event as an expression of a desire to eliminate the state of Israel. I have provided counter examples where YES, that is exactly the likely explanation. Now you are going to try to weasel out by arguing that they are not supporting doing so in a violent way. What possible difference does that make to the fact that your argument that Israeli Arabs mark this day as an expression of something other than a political platform for the eliminatin of Israel is either a gross generalization or blatantly false? . In addition, the theoretical concept that it is possible to separate the meaning of Nakba Day for just the Israeli Arabs is absurd considering that most Israeli Arabs have fully adopted the narrative of the same Palestinians and Arabs who commemorate this event outside of Israel. . Also Kudos on interviewing Arabs that support Labor and Hadash. Is it a coincidence that you didn't bother interviewing anyone from Balad or did you happen to know a priori that the answer you would get about the significance of Nakba Day would likely be different? Larry, you asked me to show you Israeli Arabs that desire to eliminate the state of Israel. THIS I HAVE PROVIDED TO YOU.
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The BDS movement is fighting against the existence of Israel. This is so obvious that even anti-Israeli analysts admit it. Those that support its program are in the same boat.
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Who said anything about violence or the Haredim? Don’t try to change the topic. You asked for Israeli Arabs that want to eliminate Israel and I HAVE PROVIDED THAT FOR YOU.
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We are talking about the commemoration of Nakba Day and your claim was that Israeli Arabs do not mean to mark this event as an expression of a desire to eliminate the state of Israel. I have provided counter examples where YES, that is exactly the likely explanation. Now you are going to try to weasel out by arguing that they are not supporting doing so in a violent way. What possible difference does that make to the fact that your argument that Israeli Arabs mark this day as an expression of something other than a political platform for the eliminatin of Israel is either a gross generalization or blatantly false?
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In addition, the theoretical concept that it is possible to separate the meaning of Nakba Day for just the Israeli Arabs is absurd considering that most Israeli Arabs have fully adopted the narrative of the same Palestinians and Arabs who commemorate this event outside of Israel.
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Also Kudos on interviewing Arabs that support Labor and Hadash. Is it a coincidence that you didn’t bother interviewing anyone from Balad or did you happen to know a priori that the answer you would get about the significance of Nakba Day would likely be different?

]]> By: RichardL http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61558 RichardL Wed, 16 May 2012 20:01:26 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61558 Joel - I would buy into your last comment. But the photograph you cite is something else. I don't know where the picture was taken, but the Palestinian flag suggests it is occupied territory, probably the West Bank. If so it is an act of resistance, not subversion and, more to the point, you have provided no evidence to back up your assertion. ['Course whether or not the action in the photo complies with the laws of war is a different matter.] Joel – I would buy into your last comment. But the photograph you cite is something else. I don’t know where the picture was taken, but the Palestinian flag suggests it is occupied territory, probably the West Bank. If so it is an act of resistance, not subversion and, more to the point, you have provided no evidence to back up your assertion. ['Course whether or not the action in the photo complies with the laws of war is a different matter.]

]]> By: Joel http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61543 Joel Wed, 16 May 2012 18:37:59 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61543 Throwing stones at State agents is subversive regardless of who throws them. Agreed? Throwing stones at State agents is subversive regardless of who throws them. Agreed?

]]> By: aristeides http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61513 aristeides Wed, 16 May 2012 14:02:50 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61513 K9 says "it was worth it" when he wasn't the one who paid the price for it. Of course he thinks it's worth it. Stolen goods are always cheap. . Joel - if throwing rocks at agents of the state is subversive, then both the settlers and the haredim are a subversive population, since they often engage in it. The only difference is that they usually aren't arrested for it. . And then there are the IDF agents provocateurs who throw rocks at soldiers. K9 says “it was worth it” when he wasn’t the one who paid the price for it. Of course he thinks it’s worth it. Stolen goods are always cheap.

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Joel – if throwing rocks at agents of the state is subversive, then both the settlers and the haredim are a subversive population, since they often engage in it. The only difference is that they usually aren’t arrested for it.

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And then there are the IDF agents provocateurs who throw rocks at soldiers.

]]> By: Joel http://972mag.com/demonizing-the-nakba/45877/comment-page-1/#comment-61494 Joel Wed, 16 May 2012 11:28:32 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=45877#comment-61494 "The Arab citizens... don’t call for the state’s destruction. With very rare exceptions, they don’t do anything subversive." Throwing rocks at soldiers isn't subversive? http://972mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_4931.jpg “The Arab citizens… don’t call for the state’s destruction. With very rare exceptions, they don’t do anything subversive.”

Throwing rocks at soldiers isn’t subversive?

http://972mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IMG_4931.jpg

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