Comments on: Debate on draft reform moves Israel further away from democracy

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:34:29 +0000

Greg: he issue is one of equal protection for Jewish draftees.

Elkin (a Knesset Grand Poobah): if no solution is found by August 1, Israel’s military draft law will be applied equally across all sectors.

Clearly, Knesset is working on how to AVOID treating all Jewish draftees equally. It really reminds Comrade Stalin: equality for draftees has to be understood dialectically, through fine differentiation. Dialectic reasoning is applied by theologians, Hegelian and Marxists, so I guess a coalition of neo-Platonic theologians and neo-Stalinist secular politicians will find some solution.

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:12:23 +0000

My view is that there is a tension between two principles: (a) some Jews are better than others (b) all Jews are created equal. Among the non-Jewish citizens some bear an honorable distinction of being “almost as good as Jews”.

And of course, there is an issue what IDF will do with all the drafted Haredi boys and girls. Already National Zionists require a lot of special treatment.

By: Greg Pollock

Greg Pollock — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:29:03 +0000

The issue is one of equal protection for Jewish draftees. A move towards equality of risk requires that the draft be extended to all. One could cushion the effect by allowing a national service lottery, where the winners can decide to perform such service rather than the draft. But saying that Israeli Palestinians (or Arabs) should not be drafted until social equality advances across race seems a way of preventing such advance. A fortiori, there can be no blanket excemption for the Ultra Orthodox, although one might create a national service religious exemption if it applies more broadly to, say, pacifists.
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One cannot simply pick stands on equal protection as they fit one’s political ends. Advocate a draft lottery if you want the IDF reduced overall.
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Sydney, above, points out that American blacks experienced intergration in the Army before intergration in society, the former propelling the latter forward to some degree. I suspect that drafting all Israelis would lead to innumerable conflicts over prior policy, micro and macro, and that is to the good. To remove the barriors you have to confront them, in real life situations.
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The left must understand that legal principle is distinct from preferred policy. You have to be willing to lose based on principle, not just advocate implementation when you expect a political win.

By: Piotr Berman

Piotr Berman — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 03:53:06 +0000

Clearly, IDF faces the crisis of insufficient manpower. No other country has military with such bewildering variety of tasks. Israel faces hundreds of threats that are dealt with, and each requires a lot of manpower and specific training. Inevitably, there are occasions when troops face a threat without an adequate preparation.

The threats may have the form of sheds, trees, vegetables, small children, teens, local girls, “international” girls, small livestock (lambs, calfs, chicken) and large lifestock (sheep, cows), clowns, and that just scratches the surface. Hostile clowns were initially intercepted while attempting entry to Israel, but there is a fresh report of a group of 5 hostile clowns in Hebron.

So Israel must have universal draft,

By: Sydney Nestel

Sydney Nestel — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 03:19:10 +0000

Noam

On the other hand, one of the first things that actually started moved forward American civil rights for blacks was their service in the U S Army , especially in WWII. The Army was fully integrated (in 1948) before the schools and certainly before residential neighbourhoods.

So maybe it could a start in Israel too.

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Sydney

By: XYZ

XYZ — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:38:58 +0000

The US is a continental power surrounded by two big oceans and two friendly, non-militaristic countries. Israel is a tiny country surrounded mostly by land and hostile, big countries. Don’t see the comparison.

By: aristeides

aristeides — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 23:32:10 +0000

The US and Israel are very much alike in both their exceptionalism and their willingness to wage war on someone else’s home ground, where their own population has relative immunity.

By: Kolumn9

Kolumn9 — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:25:21 +0000

Max, you are correct. I should have been clear that I was specifically referring to the position taken by those on the left in Israel against the universal draft that would include Haredim and Arabs.
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In practice the idea of a universal draft and universal service is perfectly at home among many streams of left-wing consensus outside the pacifists.
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Paul, size matters and a large part of the Israeli military superiority is its ability to rely in larger and prolonged conflicts on a large reserve army, made completely impossible by the ideas of a professional army.
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Aresteides for once, has a potentially interesting perspective though somewhat tainted by relying on an American example. America really is ‘special’ when it comes to its perception of war and conflict. It is always somewhere over there beyond the seas.

By: PAUL

PAUL — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:19:29 +0000

As for the transition… pay them well, offer high tech training etc (army is a job/career – one can always leave)make it attractive for the brightest and best…with different skills on offer.. just like a competitive university or corporation.. in effect use the “market”…

By: aristeides

aristeides — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:04:37 +0000

The IDF is already a settler army.

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The US had this debate a few decades ago and went with the professional army over the draft. The result was to make waging aggressive wars more possible by eliminating the threat of draftee mutiny and the mass resistance of American Moms against the slaughter of the innocents.

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As it is, the greatest enemy of the IDF is the Israeli parent, who won’t tolerate any risk to the precious drafted offspring.