Let me start by condemning all past, present and future terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.

You can choose to view these border crossings as violent acts of war that should be dealt with accordingly. You can also see this as an expression of these people’s yearning for freedom, for opportunity to return to their ancestral villages, to be reunited with their families.

You say: “Cross the fence – prepare to die.” I guess most of them realized what kind of risk they subjected themselves to and were prepared to die. And yes, they are supported in their yearning by the corrupt regimes of Syria and Iran, and much less so by the corrupt regimes in Jordan, Saudi Arabia and until recently Egypt. Does this make their yearnings and demands illegitimate?

“…you wait till there’s a peace agreement. But if you just can’t wait and feel like you have to come over, understand this: you’re a trespasser. “ As things stand now, they’ll probably have to wait another 60 years. I guess they consider Palestine their own country as much as you do. They probably don’t see this as trespassing, but as returning home.

You may like it or not, but the Palestinians will probably adopt this tactic of unarmed resistance and border crossings (see this interesting report from Democracy Now: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/17/a_new_non_violent_resistance_movement). Unlike Israel, these refugees cannot choose to negotiate (or not negotiate) from a position of power. They don’t have much to lose except their lives. This doesn’t promise anything good for the Israeli government and will help further sway international public opinion against occupation and towards right of return. I can imagine that there will come a time that these people will be considered heroes both within and outside Israel, both by Jews and the rest of the world, the way Martin Luther King and Gandhi are highly regarded in the USA, Britain and all over the world.

I perfectly understand your feelings and your fear that something may happen to your family and children. Every parent has to leave with the fear for their kids. There are two potential avenues of ridding oneself from this fear. One is to segregate oneself into a sort of gated community, put all people who may become potential criminals into prison and hope that nothing will happen to your kids. Needless to say, this will probably aggravate one’s fears even further. Another approach is to reach out, build trust and understanding with one’s neighbors and community. This is also pretty scary, difficult to do, and does not guarantee than nothing will happen to your kids. But, from my experience, this can be a very liberating, humbling, deeply human experience. It provides meaning and courage and alleviates fears.

I have never engaged in blog responses, but just “had to” this time. I don’t read all the other posts because these persons all seem to already know one another – plus they are much more informed about many issues than I am nor am I likely to become. Contention and argument distress me terribly (ptsd), so I try, in turn, to not be contentious or argumentative. My intention is never to insult or demean, merely to state my pov. If someone is upset or angry, please do not take offense if I do not respond as I would then have to take yet another valium.

I just am so happy that I found 972mag – it is wonderful to find a world of people who share so many of my ideas and ways of thinking.

sometimes people just snap or go crazy. sometimes societies go crazy. what about institutionalized terrorism? where does it stop?

that reminds me of an article i read “Knesset to discuss ‘slandering of Russians’ following Oshrenko murder “.(massacre?) do you think the knesset will discuss slandering of palestinians after the itmar massacre? me neither, they were terrorists. or not.

First gut impression? Monster. Just as my impression of the terrorists from 9-11 who so intimately and knowingly SAW, face to face, those they were to carry with them to the murder of even more. Same as I see suicide bombers (mature enough and having sufficient cult-free self-determination to not be mere puppets, who walk up to a group, board a bus, enter an establishment – and murder the human beings about them.

I felt the same way, I must admit, about the American airline’s (forget which carrier) a couple of decades ago who flew his aircraft full of innocent passengers into the cold Atlantic, all the while repeating “Alla hu-Akbar”. I thought – a Terrorist. And despite the “official” issued determination that it had nothing to do with a suicidal intent, I wondered if it had more to do with calming the fears of potential paying passengers.. No organization ever spoke up to claim “ownership” of the act, but where does that put us? We also never were given evidence from family, friends or colleagues regarding extenuating circumstances in his life that might have figured in. The one thing we know is that neither he nor any other crew member communicated with air control in the normal manner which occurs in the instance of flight emergencies.

So terrorists can be a person or small group of persons (Oklahoma City truck fertilizer bombing of the Federal Bldg, filled with a nursery of infants and small ones). Or terrorists can be agents trained, outfitted and overseen by a larger funded organization.

I see Baruch Goldstein as a terrorist of the type who go into the situation knowing they will die – oftentimes in a narcissistic glow of wishing their lives to have vast meaning beyond their deaths. Outside of his residing on the fringe of a bell-curve personality range, I do not see him as mentally disturbed. He showed a long-term consistency in beliefs and behaviors while achieving a demanding career and operating within the parameters of normal societal expectations.

Baruch Goldstein would otherwise have been a most ordinary man in most respects, had he not decided to act upon his projections (bad and evil all exists outside myself and those who I consider “like myself”)- in THEM) and narcissistic needs to be “more” – to give his life exceptional meaning and become a hero. Which has been seen – and correctly dampered by the government.

In comparison of another physician, Muslim in the US Army, who had limited online contact with an expatriate (whom Obama has issued a death warrant upon).. This man had a long history, documented in his official file, of disturbed behavior. His residence resembled that of the first week’s furnishings of a man thrown out by his wife rather than of a highly paid high-ranking officer (they PAY for all packing and moving expenses). He showed a pattern of increasing isolation and dysfunction… and is still held at an Army psychiatric facility since he is still unable to understand and cooperate in his own defense.

The red-neck patriotic Americans (?) who killed so many in Kansas City, while operating in a small isolated group of three, had the full sane comprehension of the consequences of what they set out to do and wished desperately to not be caught. They didn’t want to go down in history as heroes – but they were terrorists as much as those who leave explosives, be they IEDs or trucks at embassies, police or military installations.

Terrorism is a complicated many-faceted complex of striking fear into the hearts and lives of many. And terrorists are similarly varied in their motivations and projected specific personal rewards.

The enraged man who drove down the sidewalk (in Las Vegas if I recall correctly) and the similarly angry man who drove wildly down those at a weekend festival’s arts and crafts grounds – these men terrorized both victims and onlookers. The horrified and baffled those who heard about the incidents. But they were not terrorists.

Some young highly-manipulated young teens and similarly intellectually compromised who are used by terrorists to be suicide bombers are similarly terrorists, especially given that we are given to know that family members often know ahead of time what will happen.

Terrorism is terrible. For endless years, it seemed reports of such acts in the streets of Israel were daily happenings and I cringed in horror and my heart ached. When rockets flew in from the north towards my friend’s home city, I feared daily that the news would worsen.

I am not not a Palestinian bleeding heart – but I do recognize that a minority of Jews governing a disenfranchized ever-enlarging majority of Arabs is untenable. I want peace for all, the blood-letting to be as little and brief as possible, and for Israel to realize that destruction is not the only alternative to the status quo.

Was that a decent answer? Or did I miss your aim in questioning?

haha. your references are all claims, nothing definitive..like evidence. searching for them leads to more rightwing zio sites, never the source itself.

it’s been a slice, i’m out of here.