1. I just refered that every higher instance is unified on which land belongs to whom. There is no legal “dispute” about it as you claim, the record is clear. We must base our debate on facts and sincerity.

Spreading influence and making allies/friends is nothing weird nor illegal, its the foundation of diplomacy and neighbours. Who funds, arms, train israeli army? You see I could also make that argument.
According to you states are forbidden to have good relations with each other, atleast some states. Again sincerity and factual is what we must pursue in this debate.

2. I dont think you read my link,
read under ” Public figures” as I refered to.

3. http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/28/rabbi-pray-for-the-annhilation-of-iran

Thats the double standard, you think its ok when Israel threat Iran with a first strike.

I havent defended anyone I seek for a more correct, factual basis of this debate, obviously you defend the statements in the link above and the warmongering threats from Israel. So dont project.
People have during history chanted death to apartheid/communism/other ideologies implying they are against the political system, not the people as you try to portray it as. In fact the green movement in Iran chanted Death to Russia some years back for its support for iranian government. You dont seriously belive that these wanted the annihilation of russian people, at the same time Ive seen demonstrations in Israel chanting not death to palestine but death to arabs.

4. Yes I know you deny the crimes and thats the problem because then you are using double standards and what makes this aburd. This glorification and white-wash arent credible.

5. Because thats what possible under international law, since annexation is not an lawful act the peace should be based on the situation before this unlawful act was put in use. Its recognized by the world and by judiciary.

You should re read my message I didnt say recognition of Israel is absurd, I said recognize Israel as a Jewish state is.
Israel has not left Lebanon, not to mention they breach the border of Lebanon constantly which of course is a serious violation of international law.

You are not serious if you want to want to talk about other states, you could check the facts, Israel have used indiscriminately live bullets on civilians. Either you dont know this basic facts or you are deliberately approve such acts.

after asking for a factual contribution, you completely ignore what I wrote.

1. Maybe there’s no dispute between you, Assad and HaArez but that doesn’t mean there’s no dispute. Land can belong to coutries, it cannot belong to an amorphic group of people. Regarding influece – Iran is supplying, funding and training Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbullah and god knows who else, all of which are located in distant countries (from Iran) – that’s called spreading influence. They assist Bashar Assad (while Israel does not help the rebels) – that’s called spreading influence. You are right of course, since this is exactly like Israel having an embassy in the US.

2. Did you even read the link you’ve sent me? They are all Terrorists or belong to terror organizations. That’s what I’ve told you and that’s what wikipedia says – maybe you should read more than the first paragraph.

3. Why allegedly? Ovadia Yosef did call for people on Rosh Hashana to pray for god to destroy our enemies and think of Iran. So what? I can find a dozen such speeches done in Arab states in the past month. They mean nothing. I’ve shown you Iran’s *President* calling for Israel’s death. Can you show me something similar said in Israel? I understand what you’re saying – Iran is a peaceful nation that is simply misunderstood when it calls to remove the Zionist tumor, while Israel is warmongering because it threatens to destroy the scalpel with which the tumor will be removed. This is the same logic that makes Canada’s policy “lead to war”.

4. I don’t deny these events happened. I deny they are crimes. The marmara was a stupid provocation that backfired. That’s what usually happen when you attack soldiers. Rachel corrie probably died in an accident, but she should have had more sense that to stand in front of a D9.

5. Why is it “of course” based on the pre 1967 borders? Why not 1948? or 1956? Or 1970? Is it because the PLO was formed before 1967 (thus implying that pre 1967 borders are not good enough as well)? Or because Jack thinks so?
Recognizing Israel is not absurd, nor is it a tactic. Recognition is the first step to normalization, and it scares the hell out of all Palestinian leaders (those few fortunate enough to be outside of Israeli prisons). There cannot be peace with people who don’t recognize your right to exist. The idea that “annexation” or settlement is the sole problem of the conflict is false. Moreover – it is dumb and is not based on facts. Israel gave away Sinai for peace. Israel has withdrawn from Lebanon and Gaza. Did Hizbullah dismantle? Did Hamas stopped firing stuff at civilian population? Did you say – “oh, Israel is no longer occupying Gaza, the time for peace has come”?

Please look at Syria – this is what killing deliberately and indiscriminately looks like. Please look at suicide bombings – this is what killing deliberately and indiscriminately looks like. Please look at our lovely neighbors firing rockets into civilian population – this is what killing deliberately and indiscriminately looks like. Do you see something similar in Israel? In the amounts of casualties? In the distribution of casualties between combatants and non-combatants?

You didn’t answer my question. Do you live in Israel? Have you ever been here?

1. There is no “dispute” according to every higher instance Golan is syrian, Lebanese areas…belongs to Lebanon, Gaza, WestBank and East Jerusalem is palestinian landmasses. This was my argument. Yes Iran have relations with Iraq, Lebanon, Syria is nothing illegal about it likewise Israel having relations and influence in the US isnt illegal.

2. Check first phrase @
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel#Public_figures

3. What does this have with my #3 to do with? I requote myself:
“Iran has not threatened to destroy, however Israel have threatened…and destroyed part of states.”

Israel have repeatedly threatened to attack Iran with a first strike. Not to mention the rabbi other week allegedly urging annihilation of Iran.

4. That doesnt surprise me and thats part of my point. You wont be taken as credible if you deny such crimes while at the same time pointing fingers at others.

5. The solution is of course based on the pre 1967 war. There is nothing that oblige palestinians to recognize Israel as a specific Jewish state, thats absurd and a tactic by Israel to kill off the talks since no palestinian leadership will ever do that. Its like demanding blacks in the apartheid S. Africa to recognize that South Africa as the White state.
When Obama tried to start the peace process he like other parties urged Israel to freeze its annexation, this was bluntly rejected by Israel and the annexation is recognize as the sole problem to the conflict today.

UN buildings, like civilians are not permitted to attack during war, this has Israel ignored, you falsely claim that Israel has not intentionally hurt civilians, the fact shows that Israel have killed, the majority, by deliberate or indiscriminately live bullets.

1. Israel has a land dispute, same as dozens other countries in the world. Do you really think our geographicaly tiny dispute is comparable to Iran’s involement in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Hamas (to name a few) in terms of spreading influence?

2. You neglect to mention that for decades, “Palestinian opposition” was synonymous to Terror. Please name 3 prominent political leaders held in Israel which do not belong to a Terror organization. I don’t think there are 3 such Palestinians anywhere.

3. I’ve sent you a youtube link. Please find a similar one made by a prominent Israeli figure. I don’t talk about a threat of retaliation or a military action, I’m talking about the call for the death of Iran. Another option would be for you to explan why the call “Death to Israel” is actually a call for peace and dialog.

4. I don’t think you’d agree, but I don’t see these cases as crimes. The ship was not humanitarian but a simple provocation. They attacked soldiers and got what they wished for. Same for Rachel.

5. The refusal to engage in talks? Who refuses? What talks? Is there any palestinian leader willing to forgo the “Right of return”, ready to accept Israel as a Jewish state? Arab leaders who wanted peace – got peace. Regarding allegedly attacks against UN buildings – these things happen in a war. We hurt them, they hurt us. Only difference is they TRY to hurt civilians and we TRY no to hurt civilians.

My point? Thinking that you can talk to the leadership in Iran is naive and stupid. This is the middle east, not a debate contest.

May I ask where you live? How many times have you been in Israel?

I put out a lengthy text and your answer have been to ridicule without any significant factual contribution to my text. Go point by point and prove me wrong instead ok?

Did I call you names? Did I say that what you’ve said is wrong because you are such and such?

All I did was write down stuff you’ve written or implied. My contribution is asserting that much of what’s you’ve written is false. I even provided a video clip in which Ahmadinajad does not threaten to destroy Israel, but merely calls for its death (just like you said).

My other contribution is showing other people that not everyone are taken aback by the nonsense that you write.

I thought to go point by point and explain why you’re wrong. But what can I possibly say to a person who looks at Iran and Canada and seriously claims that it is the Canadian policy that leads to war?

Your post breathes ad hominem. This is a debate forum, do you have any significant contribution to the discussion?

Now I’ve heard it all.

Canada’s irrational behavior “leads to war”.

“Iran has not threatened to destroy”

Canada taking strategic decisions to “please Israel”.

The assumption that “Diplomacy” can solve anything with Iran.

“humanitarian ship Mavi Marmera”

Good stuff.

Here’s a glimpse of reality for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo