23 comments for ”Watch: Former IDF soldiers reveal nature of occupation“

    
  1. For more do:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/shovrim#p/u
    -
    Not all have English subtitles, but all from this soldier.
    .
    The web site is still hacked.
    .
    This looks like the beginning of something big….

  2. 
  3. Mairav
    keep up the good work

  4. 
  5. It’s true, this European-funded NGOs refuse to work with Israel’s independent legal system and instead play on the hearts and minds of ignorant outsiders (their made audience – they don’t care about the Palestinian Authority or the Israeli state).

    Human rights are universal. These are not rights groups, they are activists with nice budgets from Norway and Sweden. Not reliable sources.

  6. 
  7. The Neighbor Procedure is immoral and illegal, especially knowing that this is the reason the wanted guy is hiding there.
    I understand that the procedure mostly used in the world is to negotiate and if this fails to storm the building and pray that no hostages are killed.
    Anybody aware of another method?

  8. 
  9. The neighbor procedure is not used to negotiated. It is used to extract intelligence about the people inside the house. About doors and windows, furniture and weaponary.

    To send a civilian to gather this sort of intelligence, especially when there is a suicidal religious extremist in there is manifestly criminal.

  10. 
  11. Noam,
    1) why “religious”? Is it a religious war?
    2) can I presume that you think that the “storm & pray” method is better?

  12. 
  13. This hurts Israel as much as anyone. These Young people learn to be immoral from a very young age. Can not help the society. I read a few years ago that many Israeli’s who finish their military service go to India and get into drugs to escape this harsh reality they have been exposed to.

    War and this kind of nonsense must stop. It is a cycle of dependent origination as the Buddha says.

  14. 
  15. Question: why “European funded NGOs” refuse to work with “Israel’s independent legal system”? Answer: they have no sense of humor.

    Otherwise, they would appreciate a good joke, a.k.a. “Israel’s independent legal system”.

    By the way, I am a bit sceptical about “neighbor procedure”. Were there a terrorist in the house, he could simply tell the neighbor to keep his mouth shut about him, or be killed. But why the make hell in the middle of the night in one home if you can do it in two, or perhaps drag possible “ambassadors” from several houses and select the best? In creative hands, there is really no end of fun with that procedure.

    For example, it was describe how a boy in early teens was forced in Gaza to spill on the floor food from all containers, flour, oil, sugar, everything. Operation was successful, the house was found free of weapons and explosives, and just imagine the long faces of those overfed terrorists with all their food on the floor! And the mess! Ha ha! Ha ha!

    Of course, I am trying to make sense of those methods. Weapons can be located with a metal detector, and there are detectors of explosives. You do not need to wreck homes to check for weapons and explosives. But that would be boring.

  16. 
  17. Nothing funny about foreign countries bankrolling NGOs that say one thing but mean another.

    NGO Monitor (not liked by 972) claims BTS gets about 400 US (2mill NIS) a year from the EU mostly UK, Spain, Norway and Oxfam, and George Soros associations.

    Haaretz surprisingly published a quality and balanced article on BTS:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/gaza-testimonies-diverting-the-debate-from-the-real-issue-1.280139

    “Breaking the Silence, founded in 2004 by veterans of the second intifada, has a clear political agenda, and can no longer be classed as a “human rights organization.” Any organization whose website includes the claim by members to expose the “corruption which permeates the military system” is not a neutral observer.

    The organization has a clear agenda: to expose the consequences of IDF troops serving in the West Bank and Gaza. This seems more of interest to its members than seeking justice for specific injustices.”

    Human rights are universal – BTS is mandated to dig up dirt on the IDF period.

    And BTW, Israel is the only country in the Middle East with an independent judiciary. And most rights groups hustle the courts system all day such as B’tselem, Amnesty International, blah blah always filing appeals for this and that petitions here and here.

    Why can’t BTS do it? Because they don’t have facts. One heartfelt interview? How about statistics. Facts. I don’t need emotion, but clearly some people here do.

  18. 
  19. The number and complexity of the legal and moral problems created by terrorists hiding within civilians is incredible, isn’t it? Best idea they had – take a hostage by simply being there!
    .
    @Piotr: I don’t think that these methods are meant to detect explosives, but an attempt to minimize collateral damage. Bombing the house would be another option.

  20. 
  21. I don’t disagree with the premise that IDF – like any military – is vulnerable to violations of some sorts but the code books are thorough and precise with extreme vetting process.

    Most users here either don’t have military training or on the ground experience.

    It seems to me the neighbor procedure is a logical response to the moral bankruptcy of terrorists. If a Hamas “activist” hides himself in residential home, how can he captured?

    Soldiers searching homes is incredibly dangerous and Palestinians are notorious for their booby-traps and dirty tricks. And most of these soldiers are very young, 19-20 – dealing with Palestinian veteran fighters who know how to exploit ROE.

    Anyways, I’d like to see the IDF’s rationale behind the procedure in order to compare.

  22. 
  23. abban aziz- it can seem to you what you want, but it is illegal in Israel. A crime doesn’t need to be sadistic and without rationale in order to be a crime. And you know what? I would also like to see the IDF’s rationale because they lie and they say that this sort of thing doesn’t happen. So even if you are right as to the justifiable moral premise (and I think you are not,), then you should be petitioning the army to be honest or petitioning the legal system to change the law.

  24. 
  25. and yet what crimes have been committed? what evidence is there aside from a one-person interview? uh?

    nothing.

  26. 
  27. For Hebrew-speakers – hopefully it’ll be translated into English soon, because it’s strong.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k-WOfAVzbdA#at=73

    At the end, the guy asks himself how he’d be able to tell the story to his son.

  28. 
  29. Thanks SH .
    Yes it is strong , but you dont think that I understand it because you dont think that I understand Hebrew .
    You also dont understand how it is possible for me to be a Leftist and have a son in an elite combat unit .
    You dont understand much aout us SH ,
    why is that ?

  30. 
  31. For anyone interested this is where SH hangs out : http://shalom-salaam.net/

    all opinions are welcome
    as long as they are Sh’s opinions ;)

  32. 
  33. BTW SH
    why did you ban me from “your” forum ?
    was it because I’m too Israeli for you ?
    or too Left wing for you ?
    or too secular for you ?
    or not enough religious for you ?
    or maybe because my son is not ashamed to defend his country ?

  34. 
  35. Another BTW SH
    All of my family and all of my friends, who are all Israelis ;)
    have discussed your banning of me from “your” forums , and we have all come to the same conclusion , my son and I are not Jewish enough for you SH are we ?

  36. 
  37. immoral ? the occupation itself is immoral , their existence there is immoral the whole state is immoral

  38. 
  39. Waleed, instigating war against the (legal) state of Israel and not apologizing to the Palestinian victims for their tragedy afterwards is immoral

  40. 
  41. The clip mentioned in my previous post has now been subtitled in English.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJlePYCMtOU&feature=player_embedded

  42. 
  43. Thank you so very much for ignoring me SH,
    now you try and understand why we who vote Hadash vote Hadash,
    Its because of those like you Sh.
    We are not good enough for you , not pure enough for you, not religious enough for you , not Jewish enough for you .
    .
    You reject us and we reject you .

  44. 
  45. Thanks for sharing these videos. It’s good to see decent, honest, conscientious young people talking about how they feel about the things they had to do in the army. Each one of us has things we did in the past that we are ashamed of. It’s liberating to be able to talk about it. The sad thing is that this is still going on, and irreperable damage is inflicted on civilian population, especially children.



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