For my column in the Jerusalem Report this week analyzing public opinion, I asked a sample of Israeli Jews a survey question: How often do they visit their beloved city, their holiest of holies, the eternal, undivided capital? After all, the majority of Israeli Jews reject the division of Jerusalem and proclaim everlasting love. But our findings that nearly half almost never visit the city, and the analysis, show that for many it’s neither beloved, nor undivided. Jerusalem remains holy – but that’s not necessarily a good thing. Here’s my column, re-posted courtesy of the Jerusalem Report Magazine.
Avoiding Jerusalem
At the heart of the Zionist project lies Jerusalem. It is the wistful final note of Israel’s national anthem and the axis mundi for the Jewish people. It also happens to be an axis mundi for Christianity and Islam, and a blood-stained battleground of history, where political violence continues daily.
Which Jerusalem do Israelis see when they look towards their disputed, beloved capital? Our Jerusalem Report survey shows figures as deeply divided as the city itself. When asked how often they visit the capital, from a representative sample of Jewish poll respondents, fully 46 percent of non-Jerusalem residents say they don’t even visit the city as much as once per year.
Another 43 percent report that they visit infrequently, between one and five times per year. 11 percent of the Jewish public say they visit once a month or more. Combined, 54 percent visit at least once a year.
Mayor Nir Barkat has made the economic and tourist revival of Jerusalem into the centerpiece of his leadership. But why did the object of two millennia of longing need reviving?
Challenge
Our poll shows that the city’s leaders face a challenge in changing the image of Jerusalem, which remains rooted in the troubled, politicized, intractable image of the city.
For many Israelis, Jerusalem is associated with dark forces. While committed Jerusalemites cherish the city’s beauty and mood, in the rest of the country it can be hard to find a good word. Israelis routinely complain of the pressure-cooker tension in a city filled with the most extreme elements of local life, not to mention the most explosive parts of the conflict. During the second Intifada, there were no less than 30 suicide bombings in Jerusalem, and more than 600 terror attacks in total.
On a more mundane level, the high concentration of ultra-orthodox residents (about one-third of Jerusalem’s population) and the proximity of the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem (another one-third of the population) – has driven many residents to leave. Many have migrated to other parts of the country, seeking less “intensity,” they will often say, and more normalcy. The city has seen a negative migration balance fairly consistently since the mid-1980s, including a 10 percent drop in the secular population since 2003, according to the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies. In 2001, Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) data showed that only eight percent of Israelis went there as a tourist destination – ranking it fourth out of seven regions for internal tourism.
East and West
The political problems don’t help. In a 2008 survey for the Israeli NGO Ir Amim, which tracks political developments in Jerusalem, I found that nearly 80 percent of Israeli Jews believed that the city is, de facto, already divided between East and West – four decades after the emotional reunification in the 1967 Six Day War.
The CBS data about tourism shows total numbers, but is also divided between East and West Jerusalem. For a country whose Jewish population consistently shows a majority in polls that resists dividing the city in a peace agreement, it doesn’t seem that Israelis view unified Jerusalem as much of a meaningful reality.
Ask anyone close to the municipality – the Jerusalem Development Authority, the Mayor’s advisors – and the situation is reversible. Vast efforts are being made to power the city’s reputation as an international tourist destination and crank up the numbers of foreign visitors, including the now-annual Jerusalem Marathon; beer, wine, food, book, film, opera and music festivals; and new night-time attractions in the Old City. Barak Cohen, a media advisor to the Mayor, says these efforts are clearly directed at the domestic audience as well: “If the regular tourist options aren’t appealing, like the pilgrimage role that Jerusalem plays for most of the world, this is a way to attract them – so it’s not just a place for them to visit the Kotel and the City of David, but to become reintroduced through culture and sports.”
A Jerusalem Development Authority spokesperson says the new focus on sports, culture, and nightlife, are all intended to generate “massively modern and new images of Jerusalem.” When Israelis think about their cultural options, “Jerusalem is now in that mix.”
Figurative Athens
With so much focus on all the new aspects, there’s a strong feeling that the ancient holiness of Jerusalem isn’t particularly attractive right now to Israeli Jews. Clearly, the municipality feels that re-connecting Israelis with their eternal, indivisible, already-divided, dangerous and tense city means shifting the focus much more to the figurative Athens than Jerusalem. Is it working?
The number of foreign visitors has indeed rebounded since the crisis years of the Intifada, but it has mainly stabilized over the last five years, according to hotel stays measured by the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS). The number of Israelis who stay in Jerusalem hotels has been remarkably consistent over the last decade at 300,000-400,000, except for a sharp rise in 2006 to 413,000. Pnina Ben David of the Israel Hotel Association – whose figures of overnight stays were significantly higher than the CBS – explained that the sharp rise that year was due to the Second Lebanon War, when large numbers of Israelis came from the north, fleeing rocket fire.
Hotel stays may hide the numbers of those coming in for day trips. But our Jerusalem Report survey shows some analysis of which Jewish Israelis are visiting. Among the small Haredi and religious sample of respondents, 82 percent and 67 percent, respectively, visit once per year or more, compared to just half of the traditional and secular respondents.
Sixty-two percent of young (18-34) people visit frequently, compared to 52 percent of those in the 34-55 age range, and just 48 percent of those above 55. Past surveys have shown that young people in Israel are disproportionately religious and associated with more right-leaning views. It seems that religion and politics remain a compelling force.
In Jerusalem, roots tend to run deep.
For additional original analysis and breaking news, visit +972 Magazine's Facebook page or follow us on Twitter. Our newsletter features a comprehensive round-up of the week's events. Sign up here.
Jack
Great analysis, seems like Jerusalem is another myth used by Israel to justifying occupying, annexing palestinian land.
Dahlia Scheindlin
Thanks Jack, but I think that’s a bit superficial (no offense). Jerusalem is not just an excuse to occupy – I don’t deny that there is powerful mythical, religious, national and cultural meaning to Jerusalem that is deep and real. But it does not necessarily translate into wanting to be there and experience that all the time. Please don’t take this in the facile direction of denying a Jewish connection to Jerusalem at all (and apologies if i’ve misunderstood your implication). I’ve made this point recently: http://972mag.com/response-to-abbas-well-be-together-in-jerusalem-forever/36698/
XYZ
Depends on how you look at things….we live between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv…we visit Jerusalem all the time. The reason we don’t live there is because my job is near my home, but I would love to live in Jerusalem. The worst part of living there is not the people who are disliked by those Dahlia says don’t like visiting there (Haredim, Arabs), but rather the terrible traffic and parking problems.
For us, Tel Aviv is the place to be avoided…a soulless, materialist society that tries to run away from being Jewish, and now trying to increase Sabbath desecration by introducing Sabbath bus service which hasn’t existed for 100 years. We go there as little as possible. I know many people who feel the same way. Whom of us really represents “the true Israel?”.
XYZ
Another thing to keep in mind is that just because someone does not visit Jerusalem very often and may even feel uncomfortable there for various reasons, does not automatically mean they would support dividing the city (which means DESTROYING the city). One could view the situation as similar to the status of the Church of England. By law, the Monarch is the head of the church, and there is no separation of church as state. In spite of the fact that hardly any Anglicans ever attend church (and they are something like half the population of England) there is no significant move to “disestablish” the Church. Why? Because even though Anglicans don’t go to church, they apparently are glad to know that it is there, and having the ceremonies where the Queen acts as head of the church gives them a good feeling. Similarly, many non-religious Israelis (and Jews in other countries) may not be very observant, they are glad to see other religious people around who in effect are “being religious for them”. Often, non-observant Jews like this will contribute money to religious organizations in order to fulfill some religious impulse they have. The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is, I believe, the same…even many of those who don’t visit are glad it is there and would strongly object to dividing (i.e. DESTROYING) the city.
Dahlia Scheindlin
@XYZ – see my comment in response to Jack.
aristeides
I’d say that Dahlia’s respondants are like the dog in the manger. They don’t really want it for themselves, but they’ll bite anyone else who does.
Jack
XYZ,
“Whom of us really represents “the true Israel?”.”
-
No such thing as a “true Israel”.
The survey showed israelis in general doesnt really visit Jerusalem as much as one could imagine.
-
The city have never been united since 1947 thats just a israeli claim to justify annexation. East Jerusalem belongs to the palestinians according to international law, UN resolutions, International court Of Justice and world consensus. As soon as Israel understand this fundamental we have taken a great leap to a settlement and peace.
Nathaniel
It would be nice if you posted the statistical errors involved in the study or at least the number of participants you queried.
Also – I’m not sure statistics would be any different for other large cities in Israel (Haifa, Beer Sheba, etc.)
Eitan
Some friends and I just talked about this over lunch. I think that most Israelis don’t get Jerusalem, and that’s understandable. Jerusalem is pretty much the antithesis to the sahiyut of regular Israelis. You can’t be sahi here, it just can’t happen. It’s totally heterogeneous – not just haredim and Arabs, but tons of internationals and tourists and freaks, not to mention ‘inappropriate’ Israelis (Americans and French who don’t intend to assimilate, Russians, Ethiopians, whatever). There are dozens of different communities here, all of whom have to live with each other in different ways and different degrees of accommodation.
On a more political level, it’s important to note that a ‘united Jerusalem’ is a big fat lie. There are huge disparities between East and West, but also within west Jerusalem, and to a lesser, extent, within east Jerusalem. The municipal services and infrastructures in the Katamonim don’t look anything like those in Rehavia.
The people who are leaving Jerusalem are looking to realize their dream of sahiyut. Lucky for them that there are millions of places that can provide them with it.
XYZ
Regarding the claim that Jerusalem is “not united” because there are singificant differences between various constituent populations and levels of services- those who hold this answer this question:
Have you ever been New York City and seen the South Bronx and then central Manhattan….now, is or is not New York City a “united city”.
Tammy
@ XYZ: My Tel Aviv friends and neighbors who belong to the Belz Hassidic community with a yeshiva, and school, and those who identify as Dati Leumi, Orthodox, and other decidedly nonsecular communities (which are not more materialist than Jerusalemites I have lived among) would differ with your generalization about who lives in the first modern Hebrew city. Fine for you to stay away though release yourself from your prejudices based on ignorance.
@ Jack: What is “sahiyut”? Also, Israelis (or Americans, Brazilians, Pakistanis, Bhutanese, etc.) are just that, citizens of their countries. Called any citizen “inappropriate” is, well, just that.
Dahlia Scheindlin
@Nathaniel, I’m glad you’re meticulous about checking methodology – if you were more meticulous about reading, you might have noticed that all this information appears in the graph, although admittedly slightly blurry, since it’s a re-post from the print graphic layout. Normally omnibus questions are n=500, but we sampled only non-Jerusalem residents, of course, so it’s 449. I don’t know if the numbers would be the same for other cities – but other cities can’t be compared to the ancient and modern significance of Jerusalem, either.
eitan
Tammy, I meant “inappropriate,” in the sense of not fitting the Israeli prototype (secular, liberal, Ashkenazi, mildly socialist, nationalist). I’m not endorsing the viewpoint, I’m observing that it’s a factor in why many Israelis don’t like Jerusalem. To put it bluntly, most Israelis don’t like the ‘other,’ whether he/she is Arab, ultra-orthodox, or whatever. If you think that’s wrong, just note the nonchalance with which Netanyahu and Lapid vie for most blatantly racist in recent discourse.
As for XYZ, in New York I’m not sure that you currently have local and state authorities colluding with settlers to depopulate areas of their indigenous inhabitants, based on their ethnic/national identity, while disenfranchising them (The differences between East and West Jerusalem go beyond access to municipal services – Palestinian inhabitants of Jerusalem have a different, lesser, legal status from Jewish ones, by law).
Anyway, this is taking the discussion to a somewhat different place. Most Israelis don’t like Jerusalem because they don’t like the kind of people they assume to live here, which is based on reductionist stereotypes and doesn’t have much to do with what the texture of life is actually like here.
XYZ
Tammy-
I guess I should accept your rebuke. Actually I know about religious communities in Tel Aviv, my daughter lived in Nahalat Yitzhak when she was a bat sherut. I live in a majority non-religious community in a suburb of Tel Aviv and work in a facility that has a large majority of non-religious Jews so I am quite familiar with hilonim. Many have a connection with Judaism, but to be frank the average development has a much strong feel of being “Jewish” than Tel Aviv does….e.g. kosher restaurants, synagogues, etc.
You probably heard how in the 1996 elections, after Rabin was murdered and social divisions were the sharpest Peres stated after losing the election to Netanyahu that “the Jews defeated the Israelis”. Others stated that “Jerusalem defeated Tel Aviv”, so I am not the first one to draw such a sharp distinction. More than one member of 972 has stated “I am an Israeli, not a Jew”. The son of Matti Peled, one of the founders of the post-Zionist Left who has made yeridah to San Diego says he feels closer to Palestinians living in the US than he does to American Jews.
Thus, it is not surprising that the two cities should symbolize different views of what it means to be Israeli.
RichardL
XYZ : You give no justification for your assertion that dividing Jerusalem will DESTROY it. (I don’t know what the difference of meaning is between uppercase and lowercase, but it seems to represent some distinction for you since you consistently use it.) Just what are you suggesting will happen if East Jerusalem is returned to its legitimate ownership? Will it be razed to the ground by a vengeful god? Will extremists blow up the Al-Aqsa mosque and precipitate a war which will devastate the city? I do wish you were specific with your assertions.
Come to that I wish you would not set yourself up as an authority on “Anglicans”. While a large proportion of the British population has been baptised in the Anglican Church I do not believe that something like half the population of England would think of themselves as Anglican. Most of them rarely think about any church at all except to go sightseeing in one of the ancient buildings, or use the institution to put on a good show for a wedding, a funeral and or to provide a traditional element to Christmas. If this is the value that many Israelis put on Jerusalem (and since you personally are put off going there because of the difficulty of driving and parking, as if no alternative transport exists) I wonder what the fuss is about. If Britain had suffered nearly 70 years of conflict and war I suspect a majority of its population would happily relinquish the Anglican Church for a genuine peace. Precisely what is it that you stand to lose should the Palestinian part of the city be returned to them, other than this vague superstition that it will DESTROY the city?
XYZ
DESTROYING the city means returning it to the state it as from 1948-1967…both halves of the city stagnating, and the Arabs turning the seam line into a shooting gallery, which the Jordanians did by firing randomly into the Jewish part of the city. This required putting up anti-sniper walls along the Jewish side of the seam line. From 1967 to 1999 ALL Zionist parties including MERETZ opposed dividing the city, and I am convinced even MERETZ people today realize the city can not be divided…I have seen post-Zionists here at 972 say that.
There is no doubt in my mind many Left/LIberal/Progressives would welcome the situation…one frequent commentor here said so openly…he hates Jerusalem, he hates the people living there and he hopes it goes under. I don’t think many agree with this, but this view does exist. It will not carry, and remember…most Arabs in east Jerusalem do not want the city divided with east Jerusalem under Palestinian rule….many would flee to live in Israeli West Jerusalem.
BTW-Jews were the majority in all parts of the city before 1948…no part of it is inherently “Arab” since the Jordanian occupation of east Jerusalem was not recognized by anyone except for the UK and Pakistan.
Rodrigo
Back during the second intifada Jerusalem was a pretty dreary place to live. The entertainment options were limited and riding the bus was just not fun. Now the city is a completely different place and it is almost unrecognizable. However, attitudes take longer than that to change. The article seems intent on demonstrating some kind of lack of commitment on the part of Israelis to Jerusalem because only half visit it every year. This is a very strange approach since you really have no basis for comparison. Were you to provide similar numbers for how many Saudi Arabians visit Mecca on a regular basis, perhaps a more valid judgement could be made about what an attachment to the holiest place in your religion looks like.
RichardL
I wonder if you knowledge of Arab opinion is any better than your understanding on Anglican Britain. Why would people who have so resolutely refused to accept Israeli citizenship suddenly upsticks and flee to Israeli West Jerusalem if the city was re-divided? The determination of Arab residents to stay in Sheikh Jarrah for example suggests that they would not be in a hurry to go anywhere. This contrasts with many Jewish Israelis who cannot abide the city as the poll and demographics suggest.
BTW where does your data on Arab Opinion come from, since among those supporting the annexation of the West Bank in 1948 was “a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom”? http://www.jcpa.org.il/art/knesset6.htm According to Wikipedia “The Conference was attended by numerous delegations including the mayors of Hebron, Bethlehem, Ramallah, the Arab Legion Military Governor General, military governors of all the districts, and other notables. The audience was estimated at several thousand.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_Conference
sh
Israeli Jews like to know it’s there, a kind of nice-to-have, but even those who do visit Jerusalem regularly don’t venture into East Jerusalem except for the western wall and the Jewish Quarter. Access to these has been arranged in such a way that visitors are spilled straight into the familiar atmosphere of the Dung Gate without feeling disoriented. Route 1, aptly called Bar Lev like the chain of fortifications on the Suez Canal, is where the line still is. It divides two worlds. People cross from one to the other, but the differences between them are palpable. Architecture, public transport, heavy military presence on one side but not on the other, different legal status, culture, food, language, you name it. Dividing the city there would not have to be done with walls and fortifications if there were peaceful relations between the two populations. The city would then be a shared capital rather than a united one. And by the way, XYZ, I’m not a post-Zionist.
zayzafuna
Dahila
thanks for scientifically confirming what we all know. There is no Jewish connection to Al Quds. If you want a holy city, there is Las Vegas
Dahlia Scheindlin
Zayzafuna, respectfully, I disagree. Sorry. See my first comment in this thread.
caden
Richard, I can think of one potential problem in your rosy scenario. Hamas operating in east Jerusalem. They peull something in west Jerusalem and fade back intothe woodwork. What then.
phlegmatico
Al Andalus was eventually totally liberated, after so many hundreds of years of Muslim occupation….. Yerushalayim is next. Period.
a jerusalemite
The problem is definitely a demographic now. MANY Arabs. MANY ultra-orthodox. By the way the west/east division seems to break down which is a problem by itself. The light rail has definitely helped to unite the city in the sense that it brings many Arabs to the city center Arabs everywhere. shopping, sitting in coffee shops, pizzerias etc. Almost 50% of the people you see now on Jaffa Road, Zion square, Ben Yehuda are Arabs.
And they walk around with an attitude of being in THEIR home. Never mind that all the streets and shops signs are in Hebrew. Never mind that all people living in the area are Jews. Never mind that all the businesses are owned by Jews. Never mind that they haven’t set foot in this area until a few months ago. The way the walk, speak Arabic loudly, the expression on their face is as if it’s such a casual thing for them to be walking on Ben Yehuda street and drink coffee at “Aroma”. This is something that I know bother even the Israeli Jews who live in Jerusalem and are not so happy to see their city center turning into a semi Arab state. And this I think contribute to the alienation that Israelis from the center of the country (Jewish and secular) feel when the visit Jerusalem. They probably feel they are not even in their own country with all the Arabs and ultra orthodox everywhere. This will never happen when Israelis visit Tel Aviv for instance. For an Israeli from Petach Tiqva, Beer Sheva or Ramat Hasharon, Tel Aviv is the metropolis if Israel as they know it. When they come to Jerusalem they probably feel like they are in a foreign land, and not a land they particularly like.
aristeides
This comment has been deleted for offensive content
Elisabeth
A Jerusalemite: Your comment about all those uppity Arabs walking around as if Jerusalem is their home (and daring to speak their own language, oh horror!) is hilarious, and very revealing. They should cower in fear of their masters, right? Time to introduce some checkpoints, maybe, to teach them who is boss?
caden
Elizabeth, from what he is saying its fairly obvious that the Arabs don’t particularly cower in fear of the “Zionist jackboot”. Isn’t that a good thing.
a jerusalemite
To Elisabeth:
Jerusalem city center is not east Jerusalem. It was always part of the Jewish area of Jerusalem. It is within the green line and was never an Arab area. This area was developed by the (Jewish) Israeli state and its development is the product of the (Jewish) Israeli economy and tax payers. It is the historic center for the Jews living in Jerusalem, and Arabs NEVER used to come and shop, eat etc in this area before. Taking into account that Arabs in Israel, especially the Arabs in Jerusalem contributed nothing to Israel’s development, economy, prosperity or safety, ON THE CONTRARY, I do have a problem seeing them everywhere in Jerusalem center. It won’t be an exaggeration to say that at least 90% of the Arabs in Jerusalem are not exactly Zionists and want to turn Israel and Jerusalem into a one state and bi-national city. They never participate in the municipality elections for instance because they saw it as a recognition of Israel sovereignty anywhere in Jerusalem (and their “Palestine” as a whole). Jewish resident of Jerusalem and Israeli Jews are taking their lives in their hands if they go into Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem. Many were attacked and nearly lynched alive if they were misfortune enough to get lost in an Arab neighborhood of Jerusalem. So I find it kind of ridiculous to see these Arabs walking in the area which is very much Jewish Israeli (with Israeli flags everywhere and streets names and signs in Hebrew) as if they spent their whole life walking there – as did the Jewish residents of Jerusalem. I can understand if Arabs walk in Arab neighborhoods, including east Jerusalem, as if it’s a casual thing for them to do, but it’s kind of annoying seeing all these Arabs with this attitude on BEN YEHUDA street and Zion square. What exactly do they have to do with this street until a few months ago? what did they have to do with coffee shops in west Jerusalem? Hello! Aroma is an Israeli coffee chain that was established by Israeli Jews. At least look like it’s new to you. At least look like this is what it is – a place that was build by Jews and where almost only Jews live and used to hang out. I see these Arab youth from Silwan or Shuafat – places that are not exactly excepting Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state walking on the main street of the capital of this state as if they personally built the city and the state.
a jerusalemite
And one small thing – I don’t know which country you are from. But I where ever you are, I bet the people in your town will find it somewhat disturbing if all of a sudden half of the people filling its center were people who don’t live in the area and who they don’t feel a connection to. Although Israeli Jews realize that Israel is a democracy and that the Arabs have the same rights, most Israel want to see Israel remaining a JEWISH state with a JEWISH majority. That’s what the Jews fought for all these years. So most Israeli Jews have a problem hanging out in a city center where almost 50% of the people not only are not Jewish but identify themselves as Arab Palestinians who oppose Israel as a Jewish state.
caden
A Jerusalemite, Not a chance that Elizabeth is in Israel. You inhabit a real country, with real nuts and bolts problems. She lives in some sort of “progressive utopia”.
Leen
@Jerusalemite, I am not sure what you are saying but ate you saying that Arabs are supposably ‘alien’ to central Jerusalem? I mean I am sure you are aware that beit safafa and Abu ghosh, both Arab towns that are not in east Jerusalem? Theyve been going for decades to central Jerusalem and I am sure they see it as home. Also let’s not forget Independence park (nicknamed Gay park) right beside Ben yehuda and Jaffa street used to be an Islamic Arab cemetery, so your argument that Arabs have no connection to central Jerusalem is invalid. Furthermore, loads of old Jerusalemite families such as the Nashashibis and Husseinis used to own land in central Jerusalem esp Jaffa street and king georges street before the declaration of Israel. also mamilla Used to be a mixed arab-Jewish neighborhood. There is much of connection of Jews and Arabs and Palestinians to Jerusalem. It has always been historically mixed with many religious pilgrims as well.
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
There is a NEW phenomenon in the last few months that I think started with the opening of the Mamilla open mall but was intensified with the opening of the light rail of Arabs residents of Jerusalem making Jerusalem city center “their” city center as well. Masses of Arabs – families with children, lots of women with Muslim head cover, gangs of Arab youth are coming to west Jerusalem and walk all day in the streets, sit on benches, shop, eat, sit in coffee shops. This is just something that hasn’t happened before. You had Arabs, especially young men, working in falafel joints etc., maybe see an Arab woman passing in the street or on a bus, but you didn’t see them with their families next to you in your regular coffee shop or pizzeria.
This was also the case with from beit safafa and Abu ghosh. You just didn’t see Arabs hanging out in predominantly Jewish areas. You are talking about the Arab cemetery near Mamilla but that is from the British mandate era and before that. Even during the British mandate there where Jewish areas and Arab areas. You didn’t see Arabs living in Rehavia and you didn’t see Jews living in Shuafat. From 1948 onward that area as well as the city center was under Israeli sovereignty and the Palestinians don’t even claim them as part of a future Palestinian state. The city center is for decades a typical Jewish/Israeli area. All the development in the area was done by the Jerusalem (Jewish) municipality and financed by mainly the Jewish residents of Jerusalem and the Israeli tax payers in general. The people living in that area are Jews. It is surrounded by Jewish neighborhoods like Rehavia, Geula, Nahlaot. For years there was a division between the Jewish and Arab populations in Jerusalem. Arabs used to live in “their” neighborhoods and shop in “their” areas – in east Jerusalem, and Jews used to live in “their” areas (including the city center) and spend their leisure time in “their” areas – mainly the city center. Now you see more and more Arabs coming to areas where Jews live and work and hang out there. I think what bothers me and other Israeli Jews is that they come in such vast numbers that the Jews start to feel outnumbered and uncomfortable.
Leen
I have to respectfully disagree with you Jerusalemite. Before the second intifada, Jerusalem was very mixed, even Palestinians from the West Bank used to drop by jerusalem including Malha Mall and Jaffa street every now and then.
But it has decreased when the second intifada came out for obvious reasons, and after that it increased as well (I mean I am sure you noticed a few years ago on Thursday night the Malha mall was full of arabs and jews alike).
But I noticed you said that it was financed by Israeli tax payers, well to be honest anyone who lives in Jerusalem is a tax payer to the state of Israel so to me, that is fair enough.
I don’t know I’ve lived in Jerusalem all my life, and I always went to Jaffa st, German Colony, Tel Piot with family and friends and I saw the same going on. To be completely frank with you, to me Jerusalem is my home, be it Jaffa street or Old City or Shufat, it is still my home. This is why I do believe Jerusalem is better off being an autonomous state rather than a divided capital or a unified capital of Israel. It’s not a place I feel alien in, and to be frank I shouldn’t feel alien in either.
a Jerusalemite
To Leen:
I assume that you are an Arab. I think you are not honest if you deny the fact that the amount of Arabs you see in Jerusalem center in the last few months is a new phenomenon. You NEVER saw a muslim woman with a muslim head cover shop or sit in a coffee shop in the city center. You hardly heard people speak Arabic. I remember only about a year ago it was an attraction for me to see Arab women in the central post office on Jaffa road. And the few Arabs you saw on Jaffa road came for errands. They past through the city center but never spend leisure time there. If you are a christian Arab then maybe you used to go to the city center before, but that was hardly a general phenomenon because, again, you just hardly saw Arabs in the past, be it Muslims or Christians, in Jerusalem center, and I don’t remember ever seeing Arab women shopping or drinking coffee there etc. I never hears people strolling there speaking Arabic. Regarding Malcha mall – you may be right. I hardly go there but I remember seeing quite a few Arabs there in the past. I never saw Arabs shop or stroll in the German colony and I used to live there for 4 years until a couple of years ago. What I did see is LOTS of Arabs from Silwan or elsewhere filling the Bell Garden to the max. This is a gradual process that started maybe with Malcha mall, then Jerusalem parks and gardens (which are again in west Jerusalem and in the vicinity of Jewish neighborhoods), and now it’s everywhere – including the city center.
I also think that you are not very honest when you say that Jerusalem city center, the German colony etc. are not alien to you and shouldn’t be alien to you. You kind of disregard the simple fact that only Jews live there, all the street signs are in Hebrew, all the mentality and atmosphere is of Jewish Israel. If you don’t see the difference between Rehavia, the German colony, the city center and places like Shuafat and Bet Hanina and you feel that they are all the same then I think you are being very dishonest. Israeli Jews certainly feel that they are different. For me Shuafat, Bet Hanina and Silwan are like a foreign land, an Arab land to be exact. I don’t feel welcomed there and I don’t feel they have much to do with the Israeli Jewish “togetherness” or mentality. You can find a straight line connecting Tel Aviv and Rehavia and the people living in these places, but you can find nothing in common between Tel Aviv and Shuafat. And regarding the notion of Jerusalem becoming an autonomous state, I’d give up the idea if I were you. Since the Arabs in Jerusalem are getting used to see so many Arabs everywhere in all parts of Jerusalem, there ARE starting to get the illusion that maybe Jerusalem is not even part of Israel and is a kind of bi-national enclave floating in mid air. To that I can only remind you that even if many Israeli Jews don’t live in or visit Jerusalem, it is very much connected to the state of Israel and the almost 6 million Jews living in it. I think it’s only in holidays when Jewish Israelis from other parts in Israel come to visit Jerusalem in vast numbers, that the Arabs in Jerusalem are suddenly reminded that Jerusalem is not a semi Arab city like they wish it would be, but the capital of the Jewish state – a state with vast Jewish majority, and to all the Jewish Israelis in Tel Aviv, Beer Sheva, Eamat Hasharon, the kibutzim and everywhere else in Israel – it is THEIR capital. They might feel uncomfortable seeing many Arabs in the city center etc., but they will never give up Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state.
Leen
I think you are confusing religious muslims with Arabs, Jerusalemite. I need to point out that there is a recent phenomenon within East Jerusalem itself that people became more religious, hence more women covering their hair.
Furthermore, I think the reason you hardly heard people speak Arabic is because of the second intifada and the psyche of that still loomed (I do remember during the intifada my family and I were barred from entering Malha mall because we spoke Arabic…). Mine and yours experience differ, like I said I was never restricted to East Jerusalem, I always went to Tel piot, Malha, Jaffa street with friends and family.
How have I been dishonest? I’ve been going there all my life, my dentist that I’ve been going to for 14 years is Israeli and his practice is in West Jerusalem, I went to school in West Jerusalem (around Mea Shearim ironically), I go to Jaffa street quite a lot, I took driving lessons for a year in Tel piot and pretty much drove everywhere there and know how to get around… Jerusalem IS my home, be it east or west. And judging from this article, I have been going to West Jerusalem more than most Israelis on the surveys, so I think I am more native to Jerusalem than they are. I vote in the municipal elections, I pay taxes, I was born here, I have permanent residency here, so please don’t tell me this isn’t ‘my’ city and I am suppose to feel ‘alien’ in it. And I am sure many Palestinians feel the exact same thing, I know for sure many of my friends and family feel the exact same way about Jerusalem.
Autonomy is different than bi-nationalism by the way. Give it status as Vatican or Luxembourg. Plus autonomy is not a foreign motion, it showed up in resolution 181.
The beauty of Jerusalem is that it is very different, old, new, holy, unholy, anicent, houses dating back from the ottoman times, newly built houses, etc.
And as for the unwelcomed part, I think it is because of the way you view things (and I am sorry if I misjudged you but it seems you view the notion that central jerusalem is suppose to be only for jews). I have quite a few friends who are Israelis and Jews who go to Beit hanina and Shufat… they always seem to fancy going to Sinokrot’s falafel and ka’k bakery and Abu Shukri’s Humus. And I’ve also seen quite a few jews shopping on a saturday in east jerusalem.
You’d be surprised what happens when people drop the supremacist, separatist and exclusivity attitude.
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
No matter how you try to present it, west Jerusalem is a Zionist/Jewish product. It was built by Jewish/Zionist mayors, engineers and city planners. Ben Yehuda pedestrian street, all the parks and Gardens in Jerusalem, the malls, the museums are the result of the work of Zionist mayors like Teddy kolek. There is a reason why Shuafat and Silwan look like the do and why the city center and the Rehavia look like they do. It’s not a matter of money invested in these places. it’s a matter of two total different populations living in these areas. The Arab neighborhoods look like Arab neighborhood – not very developed and without attention to the environment because unfortunately that’s how Arabs live everywhere. So when Arabs come to west Jerusalem at least don’t pretend it’s your natural environment. It’s very different from the Arab neighborhoods because it was never and isn’t still Arab. It was always a Jewish area. planned, built and occupied by Jewish Israelis and not Arab Israelis. When Israeli Jews walk in Emek Refaim they are in THEIR neighborhood. If they don’t actually live on that street (like I did) or on nearby streets in the German colony, old Katamon, Talbiya etc., then they come from other Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem or other Jewish cities and towns and they know that they are at home because they are in another Jewish neighborhood – where Jews live and own shops etc. As I’ve said I hardly ever saw Arabs strolling there. It’s like I would say that I’m right at home at Silwan. No Israeli Jew will tell you that unless they are settlers or left wing Israelis – who are not the majority of Israelis. All Israeli Jews know exactly when they are in an Arab area and when they are in a Jewish area. I can’t say anything about your personal feelings of being at home, but if you ask most Israelis in Israel I don’t think that they view the Arabs in Israel and Jerusalem in particular as part of their natural environment. I think that most Jewish Israelis feel at home among Jews and not among Arabs and would rather that Israel’s population was only Jewish or that there was a larger majority of Jews in Israel than there already is, so that there will never be a question regarding the character and national identity of Israel. It’s a racial thing, I know, but let’s not try to pretend that it’s not true. The vast majority of Israeli Jews feel “at home” when they are among Jews, and not among Arabs. And again, if you think that the Jews in Jerusalem and in Israel will ever agree to make Jerusalem a Vatican kind of place you are greatly mistaken. Maybe you forget but 20 minute walk from Jaffa road is the Israeli parliament, Supreme court, the government offices, the bank of Israel, the Israeli broadcasting authority etc, not to mention the sacred sites for Judaism in the Jewish quarter which seem to be open and accessible to Jews only when there’s a Jewish state that can guarantee that. We all know what was the situation like when the Arabs (i.e. the Jordanians) were in control in the old city.
I understand that the Arabs in Israel are in a difficult situation. To tell you the truth I think it’s very hard to find your place as a citizen in a state that was established and is defined as the Jewish state, when you are not Jewish. That’s why I think the Israeli Arabs always try to change the character of Israel and Jerusalem – from the capital of the Jewish state and from a Jewish state to something that is like the Vatican or a state of all its citizens. This dream however is not shared by Israeli Jews who have a whole different idea about what Israel was, is and should be all about.
Leen
Again, I have to disagree with you over the Jerusalem being a product of Zionism because you cannot deny that alot of buildings and houses existed long before the existence of Israel, and like I pointed it out earlier, lots of old Jerusalemite families such as the Nashashibis and Husseinis owned land before the creation of Israel. (Tel Aviv however is a completely different subject).
Jaffa Road by the way existed in 1861, long before even the biggest Zionist aliyahs. The German Colony was also established by the German Templars (hence, German Colony).
You know why the look the way they do? Simple, allocation of sources do not go to neighbourhoods such as Silwan nor Shufat. I believe Adalah has a better comprehensive data over the allocation of funding and resources. Emek Refaim was first settled by German Templars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emek_Refaim). It’s not because of ‘that’s how arabs are’, it’s because of poverty, unemployment, lack of funding and resources, lack of state education which is also linked to lack of funding and so on. It’s what happens when you have a state that identifies as Jewih and not as a citizen for all. That’s the by-product of an ethnocracy.
Maybe they won’t, but then again the Palestinians in 1948 didn’t agree to the partition and look at how that ended up.
Mate the Jordanians kept the Palestinians under their feet as well, I am not going to vouch for them either, that’s why I keep repeating autonomy, not arabs or jews keeping control over Jerusalem which is a very holy city to both parties and I am sure we can both agree on that. I am sure it will not happen tomorrow, but listen things like this don’t just happen and it’s all lovey dovey by tomorrow. I will give you an example, Holy Sepulcher Church, for centuries different sects of Christianity fought over it, what happened is in the end is all Christian sects and Muslims cooperate together to oversee the affairs of the church. Look I’m not saying it is easy, but it can happen.
Plus, Jerusalem is not recognized as the Jewish capital of Israel internationally either, which is why the embassies are in Tel Aviv.
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
I don’t see how an autonomous Jerusalem will ever work for so many reasons. Arabs Muslims want Jerusalem for themselves, religious Jews want Jerusalem as the capital of Israel for religious reasons, plus we are talking about a part of the world where Arabs are fighting each other all the time and there’s no peace, democracy or stability. What you are suggesting is just going to lead to fractions and wars. You first have to deal with your own brothers in the Hamas that not only will not be willing to share Jerusalem with the Jews, but don’t think the Jews have a right for the country at all in what they see as a sacred Arab land.
mrcritic
@A JERUMALEMITE
” It’s a racial thing, I know, but let’s not try to pretend that it’s not true. ”
No it sounds more like you are pretending that racism isn’t a choice.
a jerusalemite
to mrcritic:
Zionism is a movement of self determination for the Jews, not self determination for Jews and Arabs. From the long bloody history of Jews in Christian and Muslim countries it is obvious that when Jews live among non Jews they are not considered equal citizens but “Jews”, so the only place Jews can guarantee their security and equal rights is in a state where they are the majority. That’s the rational behind the establishment of Israel. Therefore while Jews except that non Jewish Israelis have equal rights as Jews, they will always want and strive to maintain the Jewish majority in Israel. Since the Arab population birthrate is higher than that of the Jewish population, this is an ongoing worry for Israeli Jews. Because as I wrote before, the Arab minority in Israel (which is not so small and growing) always strive to totally change what Israel Israel is – from a Jewish state to a state of all its citizens. That is something the Jews in Israel can never except. They haven’t built a country and fought for it to see it turn into just another country where Jews are persecuted and discriminated against by the non Jewish majority – because a state of all its citizens will quickly become an Arab state – with Arabs from all over the middle east coming to live in the much more advanced state that was built by the Jews and with their higher birthrate become a majority in a short time.
a jerusalemite
Another comment to Leen:
I said west Jerusalem is a product of Zionist effort, not Jerusalem as a whole. While it’s true that the German colony and Jaffa Road existed before 1948 there is a not so small difference between the pastoral German colony of the Templars times to the Israeli neighborhood of German colony. The German built a few houses, Israel built a whole neighborhood with a bustling commercial area. Nowadays the vast majority of building in the German colony as well as Jaffa road as well as every other part of west Jerusalem were built by the Jews after 1948, and all the urban infrastructure and facilities that go with a developed city. Now regarding the Arab neighborhoods – I don’t think you’ll see very developed countries and conditions when you look across the borders of Israel to ALL the Arab countries. That’s why I said it’s an Arab thing. Arabs are not very well known for the development of their countries, cities and conditions of their Arab citizens. There is a thin layer of elite (usually corrupt) that live in nice closed compounds, but most Arabs in Arab countries like in miserable conditions. When the first Zionist came to the barren land which is now Israel they had no money. Yet when you look at their first settlements you see orderly building, roads, trees and flowers that they planted. It’s not always about the money, many times it’s about mentality. I often see by the way Arabs in west Jerusalem through garbage in the street when there’s a garbage bin a few meters from them. I see Arab families walk all over plants and irrigation tubes. It happens sometimes with Jews but much less. Arab drivers are MUCH more involved in road accidents and violent crimes in Israel. It all gives a picture of a society with a less developed and more violent mentality.
Leen
@Jerusalemite,
Again, you are implying that there should be some divide while an autonomy does not necessarily mean that there would be any divide. To be honest, we cannot speak for Arab Muslims nor religious Jews because there never has been a poll conducted on that subject. Sure if you give them the choice between Jerusalem for the Jews, or jerusalem for the arabs, what do you think they are going to say? Nothing personal, but I think it goes vice versa for the jews as well. Arabs have been fighting each other because of division, listen mate, I’ll give you one example. European countries have been fightening eachother for centuries, and I do mean centuries… when did they stop fighting? When they established the EEC in 1955. People thought it would be impossible for Germany and France to actually sit down with eachother cooperate because just 10 years ago Germany destroyed France and occupied them. Sure, this situation is a bit different, but you re saying that animosity will continue forever, so we need to separate both parties.
Hamas is not my brothers mate, and Hamas is currently changing its tune, they have reconciled with fatah and they have agreed to a long-term ceasefire and embrace more non-violent resistance, they definately did not participate in the last escalation, they even held their own people back from marching towards the borders during land day protests so I think that space is one to be watched.
It’s funny you should say that Jerusalem cannot be shared because I was speaking to some friends who are old Jerusalemite families and what was surprising is that they said before Zionism, Jews were pretty much part of Jerusalem as they were, they even used to intermarry and they have a couple of Jewish relatives and whatnot. And they said it was normal back then. So this is not ‘impossible’.
Leen
@Jerusalemite
I am sorry if I misjudged you but you do hold a very supremacist attitude in your post. That arabs are uncivilized people while the jews are civilized.
Once more, you are denying the heritage of the Jerusalemites pre-establishment of Israel. And again this is due to allocation of resources, we are speaking in abstract terms here. Like I said, Adalah has a better comprehensive data resource than I do, so I suggest you check them out.
I actually think you are wrong, the development of Arab countries is not homogenous. You’ve got Bahrain, Qatar and UAE which are very rich and advanced countries, then you’ve got countries such as Jordan and Egypt which has a inequality of resources. Then you have the Maghrib countries (apart from Algeria) which have great potential for development. Plus there is a host of reasons why development is stunted, it is not because ‘they are arabs’, it is because of consequences of British Mandate (decolonization ended for some countries just 40 years ago), dictatorships, conflicts, etc. I always say, wind the clock 50 years on arab countries and you’ll see the potential for development, because let’s be honest, no country was born developed and advanaced. That notion that because they are arabs is very, very orientalist, which is inherently racist.
They had no money, but they sure did have aid.
Also, I disagree, arabs drivers and Jewish drivers are both mad. There’s no difference for me driving in Shufat or Tel piot, everyone is mental on both sides, and that notion is shared by other Israelis as well.
Again, it seems you don’t factor in the effects of the occupation on Palestinians(that’s your little comment on throwing the garbage), and again, allocation of resources. Yeah you say it’s mentality, but what kind of mentality would you have if you are under occupation?
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
The fact that Arab drivers in Israel are involved in car accidents in numbers that are much greater than their percentage in the population and that the Arabs in Israel are involved in violent crimes in numbers that are much greater than their percentage in the population are not my impression. These are the actual statistics and there’s nothing you can say to change these facts. Regarding the development of Arab countries – With the amount of oil the gulf states have there’s no wonder their citizens live in wealth. These countries are rich but they are not advanced. Not in social development, not in the status of women, in knowledge in research in any significant contribution to the world. They have big houses, flashy cars, big malls and lots of foreigners without any rights who serve them. That’s about it. And when will the Arabs stop finding accuses for their lack of achievements? Jordan and Egypt have an inequality of resources? Wow! Israel is so much the opposite! It has so much natural resources! It’s only Israel tremendous natural resources that can account for its development. Let me remind you that Jordan and Egypt are Israel’s neighbors, and Israel always suffered from the same lack of natural resources and look where it is and where these countries are. And the Maghrib countries have a “great potential for development”? What stops them from developing then? And regarding the British Mandate as an accuse for underdevelopment – again, if I’m not mistaken the British Mandate spread all over British Palestine – including the Jewish towns and settlements. Why then the Jews were able to break free from its apparent inhibiting effect and the Arabs haven’t? Sorry to be sarcastic but I think one of the main reason why the Arabs don’t seem to step out of the dire condition they are in is because they can’t look at themselves in the mirror, see what wrong with their societies and deal with it.
Leen
Well I’ve searched through the central bureau of statistics and this is the only thing I’ve found back in 2001 although if you do have anything recently, I am interested to see.
http://www1.cbs.gov.il/www/publications/acci02/acci02e.pdf
Drivers Involved in Accidents with casualties
‘approximately 49% of the Jewish and Other drivers involved in road accidents, and approximately 43% of the Arab drivers’. So I guess your conclusion is wrong unless you have something more recent.
As for crimes,
• 91% of adult offenders convicted were men; 46% were aged
30-49; 62% were Jews, 32% were Arabs, and 6% were other.
http://www1.cbs.gov.il/www/statistical/crime08e.pdf
This was done in 2008, again if you have anything more recent, I would be interested to see.
So I’m guessing the facts here that more crimes are committed by jews than arabs really. Except for driving accidents, it’s more half half.
THe statistics I pulled for Qatar, Bahrain and UAE was actually the Human Development index, which measures quality of life rather than wealth ‘A long and healthy life: Life expectancy at birth
Education index: Mean years of schooling and Expected years of schooling
A decent standard of living: GNI per capita (PPP US$)
The HDI combined three dimensions up until its 2011 report:
Life expectancy at birth, as an index of population health and longevity
Knowledge and education, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting).
Standard of living, as indicated by the natural logarithm of gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity’.
As a result, my theory that they are advanced and developed in terms of human development and not wealth. It is why countries such as China and Saudi Arabia are not on the list because their quality of life is low while they are very rich countries.
The foreigners do have rights should they wish to seek citizenship. It is not like they enslaved foreigners, they come for work opportunities and everyone that I know who live in UAE, Qatar and Bahrain absolutely love it be it a citizen or a ‘foreigner with no rights’ as you like to put it.
Leen
As for the Jewish settlements, ‘Arabs’ if you are referring to Palestinians did not develop because 80% of the population was expelled, that is a fact that you cannot ignore. I am not talking about Egypt or gulf countries because you are implying that development in the Middle East is a homogenous order which is simply not true. Bringing back to the Palestinians however, the Palestinians have been under occupation for 64 years, what do you expect? First 80% of their population is expelled, then their destiny is ruled by Egyptians and Jordanians, then the Israeli occupation of West Bank and Gaza Strip. When did they ‘really’ have a chance to develop, even now their economic boom is more or less controlled by the Israeli occupation. The road in Qalandya for instance, you need a license from the Israeli government for gods sake to improve it, and do you honestly believe the Israeli government will grant it?
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
You don’t read the data well. I also saw this statistics in Hebrew. The percentages there are of the general population. Arab drivers make up 14% of Israeli drivers but their involvement in car accidents in Israel is 43% out of all Israeli drivers – that’s 3 times more. The web is full of official data confirming what I wrote, I’ll bring the exact address tomorrow, I don’t have time now.
a jerusalemite
To Leen:
I couldn’t find this official report in English, but I assume you read Hebrew, being an Israeli citizen.
The address is:
http://www.rsa.gov.il/InformationResearchCenter/ResearchSurveyCenter/tazpit/Documents/tazpit12.pdf
This report gives statistics about the involvement of Arab Israelis in car accidents between the years 2006-2010, and is based on national bureau of statistics figures. According the statistics almost in every parameter that has to do with car accidents, the Arab Israeli drivers are involved much more than their general percentage in the population and particularly their percentage out of the total Israeli drives – which as the report states is only 14%.
Here are some of the highlights of this report:
1. The number of Arabs killed in car accidents is higher (in all age groups) than their percentage in the general Israeli population. In drawing #3 you can see that between the ages of 20-24 the difference between Jewish and Arab drivers is the highest with 19 Arab dead compared to 7 Jewish dead (for 100,000 Israeli citizens). So even though Arab drivers make up only 14% of Israeli drivers, they are killed in road accident in absolute numbers more than 3 times than non-Arab drivers.
2. Drawing #2 gives figures for all the Israeli population (not for 100,000), and it shows that in 2010 the the Arab drivers in Israel who were killed in car accidents made up 37% out of the general population – again, much higher than the percentage of Israeli drivers out of the general drivers population in Israel.
3. Regarding what the report call “backyard accidents” – accidents that happen around the the house where a parent or other member of the family runs over a child by mistake – Arab young children were killed 7 times more than Jewish children.
4. Young Arab truck drivers are involved in deadly car accidents much more than their relative percentage in the driving population (drawing #10)
5. In the Arab population the percentage of children who have safe belts on is lowers than in the Jewish sector.
6. The number of Arab drivers who are involved in car accidents because of they made some sort of driving offense is higher than that of Jewish drivers (meaning they don’t drive in a lawful and safe manner).
7. There are more Arabs without a driving license that are involved in car accidents than there are Jews.
8. The number of Arab drivers who were involved in car accidents because they made some sort of driving offense (meaning unlawful and dangerous driving) is higher that that of Jewish drivers.
a jerusalemite
point #6 and #8 in my last comment are the same of course…
a jerusalemite
Regarding crimes:
Wow Leen you really need to work on your knowledge in statistics. Even without searching for data I can see that you again don’t know how to read statistical data. You are looking at absolute percentages without taking into account that Arabs in Israel are only 20% of the population, so on the face of it if Arabs are involved in 32% of the crimes committed in Israel then that’s more than their percentage in the general population. But I think that for violent crimes the difference id even higher. I’ll search for the data…