Comments on: One more response to Goldberg’s praise of Israel’s airport security http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:55:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Alex http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-90287 Alex Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:24:55 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-90287 It's not only Arab Israelis who are subjected to the humiliating process. It's also great numbers of non-Jewish (and non-Muslim, for that matter!) foreign tourists. Which makes it kind of ironical when Israel is supposedly trying to lure tourists at the moment. There is a limit indeed to the understanding and tolerance that can be expected from outsiders. After being subjected to a three-hour intimidation and wait at Ben Gurion, I really would not prioritise Israel as a holiday destination again, despite my loving the place, the language and having many friends there. It is tedious, humiliating and the security personnel is often simply intimidating and RUDE (worth here to note that politeness is NOT the national asset in Israel, but at Ben Gurion rudeness really exceeds any imaginable limits...) It’s not only Arab Israelis who are subjected to the humiliating process. It’s also great numbers of non-Jewish (and non-Muslim, for that matter!) foreign tourists. Which makes it kind of ironical when Israel is supposedly trying to lure tourists at the moment. There is a limit indeed to the understanding and tolerance that can be expected from outsiders. After being subjected to a three-hour intimidation and wait at Ben Gurion, I really would not prioritise Israel as a holiday destination again, despite my loving the place, the language and having many friends there. It is tedious, humiliating and the security personnel is often simply intimidating and RUDE (worth here to note that politeness is NOT the national asset in Israel, but at Ben Gurion rudeness really exceeds any imaginable limits…)

]]> By: sh http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-51130 sh Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:22:07 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-51130 Interesting how, with that one-size-fits-all profiling that sees Palestinian Israelis subjected to the lengthiest airport humiliations of all, those 20-year-olds let a Mohamed Merah from Toulouse both into the country and out a couple of years ago, without, apparently, raising an eyebrow. A deafening national security apparatus silence ensues. Well? Interesting how, with that one-size-fits-all profiling that sees Palestinian Israelis subjected to the lengthiest airport humiliations of all, those 20-year-olds let a Mohamed Merah from Toulouse both into the country and out a couple of years ago, without, apparently, raising an eyebrow. A deafening national security apparatus silence ensues. Well?

]]> By: Arieh Zimmerman http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50795 Arieh Zimmerman Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:10:18 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50795 The poor 20 year old, largely ignorant, willfully or not, of the wider, significance of her actions is not allowed no exercise her common sense, but must follow 'one size fits all' regulations, or lose her job. Times are tough and jobs are scarce, but I would feed more confident of the strength our democracy if more security personal preferred other employment. The poor 20 year old, largely ignorant, willfully or not, of the wider, significance of her actions is not allowed no exercise her common sense, but must follow ‘one size fits all’ regulations, or lose her job.
Times are tough and jobs are scarce, but I would feed more confident of the strength our democracy if more security personal preferred other employment.

]]> By: joe http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50290 joe Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:19:29 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50290 zayzafuna - as I stated above, flying via Amman doesn't help as the Allenby crossing is worse than Ben Gurion. zayzafuna – as I stated above, flying via Amman doesn’t help as the Allenby crossing is worse than Ben Gurion.

]]> By: zayzafuna http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50283 zayzafuna Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:41:52 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50283 the comments above are why you should travel thru Amman the comments above are why you should travel thru Amman

]]> By: Dhalgren http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50068 Dhalgren Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:02:49 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50068 @Aaron "Are you saying that ethnicity is not used at all as a factor by Ben Gurion security? All I mean by 'ethnic profiling' is using ethnicity as one factor in profiling." . That would not necessarily be ethnic profiling. It is when the ethnic factor becomes disproportionate in the profiling process that the usage of the term makes sense. Personally, I do doubt the usage of ethnicity or national origin at all in profiling, as security will just be playing catch-up with the latest terrorist group (e.g. unwitting, single European women after the Hindawi affair). It makes the most sense, to me, to focus on behavioral profiling and to combine that with some level of uniformly-applied scanning technology (and I don't mean the insane levels of scanning we have here in the US). @Aaron
“Are you saying that ethnicity is not used at all as a factor by Ben Gurion security? All I mean by ‘ethnic profiling’ is using ethnicity as one factor in profiling.”
.
That would not necessarily be ethnic profiling. It is when the ethnic factor becomes disproportionate in the profiling process that the usage of the term makes sense. Personally, I do doubt the usage of ethnicity or national origin at all in profiling, as security will just be playing catch-up with the latest terrorist group (e.g. unwitting, single European women after the Hindawi affair). It makes the most sense, to me, to focus on behavioral profiling and to combine that with some level of uniformly-applied scanning technology (and I don’t mean the insane levels of scanning we have here in the US).

]]> By: joe http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50038 joe Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:43:48 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50038 Aaron, yes I'm afraid the simplest solution is that those armed groups who were blowing up planes changed their tactics. In the same way, whilst checkpoints have had an impact on bombings, almost every Palestinian knows how to get around them. If you think these are the only thing stopping the bombings, you're kidding yourself. As to the intelligence of screeners, one asked me what I had degrees in but could not understand the answer I gave. OK, fair enough it was in English so not her first language, but it wasn't an unusual word. What do you want me to do, act it out? Aaron, yes I’m afraid the simplest solution is that those armed groups who were blowing up planes changed their tactics. In the same way, whilst checkpoints have had an impact on bombings, almost every Palestinian knows how to get around them. If you think these are the only thing stopping the bombings, you’re kidding yourself.
As to the intelligence of screeners, one asked me what I had degrees in but could not understand the answer I gave. OK, fair enough it was in English so not her first language, but it wasn’t an unusual word. What do you want me to do, act it out?

]]> By: Aaron the Fascist Troll http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50033 Aaron the Fascist Troll Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:26:19 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50033 Maybe I have a lenient idea of what "smart" is, but I don't think you should call someone dumb if they can handle abstract algebra, topology, and real analysis, even at the undergraduate level, as this El Al screener could. How many TSA employees could get a degree in math from UCLA? * Given the low opinion of Israeli competence expressed by all the security experts commenting here, it's amazing that Israeli flights aren't blowing up every day. Why haven't there been any such successful attacks since the security methods went into place? Did the terrorists suddenly just lose interest in Israeli targets? Maybe I have a lenient idea of what “smart” is, but I don’t think you should call someone dumb if they can handle abstract algebra, topology, and real analysis, even at the undergraduate level, as this El Al screener could. How many TSA employees could get a degree in math from UCLA?
*
Given the low opinion of Israeli competence expressed by all the security experts commenting here, it’s amazing that Israeli flights aren’t blowing up every day. Why haven’t there been any such successful attacks since the security methods went into place? Did the terrorists suddenly just lose interest in Israeli targets?

]]> By: Anyone who isn't Jewish or Israeli http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50022 Anyone who isn't Jewish or Israeli Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:03:33 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50022 I'm a 20-something european-looking US. citizen and I was subject to the same humiliating experiences at Ben Gurion. I was given a 5 on the 0-6 "terrorist scale" as I like to call it, and I was escorted the entire way through the airport security. I even got to my gate for a few minutes and then was escorted back to do all of the security checks twice over. Apparently having Armenian pottery means I have a bomb. The point of this is that the policy at Ben Gurion and in the rest of the country is racist and highly political. It is racist not only against Arabs, but against anyone who isn't Israeli or Jewish, or who isn't a complete and total supporter of the State of Israel. Perhaps next time I should wear an I heart Israel t-shirt. Or maybe racism, discrimination, and political maneuvering at the airport should be stopped at all levels. Thanks State of Israel for your "democracy." I’m a 20-something european-looking US. citizen and I was subject to the same humiliating experiences at Ben Gurion. I was given a 5 on the 0-6 “terrorist scale” as I like to call it, and I was escorted the entire way through the airport security. I even got to my gate for a few minutes and then was escorted back to do all of the security checks twice over. Apparently having Armenian pottery means I have a bomb.

The point of this is that the policy at Ben Gurion and in the rest of the country is racist and highly political. It is racist not only against Arabs, but against anyone who isn’t Israeli or Jewish, or who isn’t a complete and total supporter of the State of Israel. Perhaps next time I should wear an I heart Israel t-shirt. Or maybe racism, discrimination, and political maneuvering at the airport should be stopped at all levels.

Thanks State of Israel for your “democracy.”

]]> By: joe http://972mag.com/another-response-to-jeffrey-goldbergs-praise-of-israels-airport-security/38642/comment-page-1/#comment-50021 joe Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:00:50 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=38642#comment-50021 Being an undergraduate does not make you smart. The procedures are stupid and the people who run them are stupid. And they're usually young, short and appear to be around 12 years old. I know they are not, but it is hard to take anyone seriously who is that short and that young. One time I was given the 'first class' treatment simply because I answered the first question I was asked when arriving at Ben Gurion honestly. They asked where I had been, I said Bethlehem. If I had said Tel Aviv like all the other people did who arrived with me, I would not have been the questioning, checks for explosives (or whatever the hell they are doing with those wands with bits of cotton wool on the end) and everything else. But that is fine, I don't mind. I've done nothing wrong or illegal or hidden. If you want to waste your time wasting my time, go right ahead. But don't pretend it is making Israel any safer. Being an undergraduate does not make you smart. The procedures are stupid and the people who run them are stupid. And they’re usually young, short and appear to be around 12 years old. I know they are not, but it is hard to take anyone seriously who is that short and that young.

One time I was given the ‘first class’ treatment simply because I answered the first question I was asked when arriving at Ben Gurion honestly. They asked where I had been, I said Bethlehem. If I had said Tel Aviv like all the other people did who arrived with me, I would not have been the questioning, checks for explosives (or whatever the hell they are doing with those wands with bits of cotton wool on the end) and everything else.

But that is fine, I don’t mind. I’ve done nothing wrong or illegal or hidden. If you want to waste your time wasting my time, go right ahead. But don’t pretend it is making Israel any safer.

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