Comments on: Activists reach Israel in new ‘flytilla’ bid; dozens refused entry

By: max

max — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:28:38 +0000

Keep strong, summer is coming and Hawaii is just around the corner!

By: TLA

TLA — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:23:12 +0000

@MAX – SF Bay. Freezing cold, we’ve had a huge thunderstorm a couple of days ago, highly unusual. Got influenced by that, all the lightning and stuff, I guess:-)

By: max

max — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:16:11 +0000

TLA, the California sea, sun and sand is supposed to soften your character

By: TLA

TLA — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:09:06 +0000

@David, and to add to the point, there are hundreds of thousands of foreigners entering Israel every year, some of them go to the Palestinian territories, some don’t. The number of people denied entry to Israel is negligible, regardless of port of entry. Its just the loudness of their cries that matters. If they have “connections” with a pro-terrorist site like this – then it will be an issue. If they don’t – no-one cares.

By: TLA

TLA — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:06:25 +0000

@David: “So I proved to you that some people DO have a problem entering Palestinian cities via the Allenby bridge; I even offered a site with a photograph to demonstrate the point. You were factually wrong in your statement.”
.
True, I was factually wrong. Some people are denied entry.
.
Nevertheless, it has nothing to do with the case of this flytilla, as they were denied entry to Israel.
.
Their claim that they’re going to “Palestine” (a non-existent place) has no relevance, because they were going to ISRAEL.
.
Next time, if they want to prove a point – they should go to the King Hussein bridge, and if denied entry – they’ll have a right to complain about something, just as Chomsky did. And as I already mentioned – Chomsky got an apology.
.
Now, do you have anything constructive to add to this?

By: max

max — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:07:02 +0000

David44,
You’re right and TLA got carried away with a too absolute statement.
However, the reasoning seems still sound: people who want to visit only the PA can, in most cases, avoid Israel’s main entry points and those who’re willing to visit the PA without making a fuss about their political motivation can – most often, that is, several hundred thousands a year – come through any Israeli port.
Once you choose to come through Israel, you will be subject to restrictions as in most countries in the world. Note the ‘most’, as some – apparently well respected – countries in the region do apply racist criteria for entrance, and cultural/religious restrictions once you’re in. Of course, setting a regional benchmark isn’t in Israel’s favor
In short, not much to complain about, apart from a rather unimaginative reaction from the Israeli govt.

By: David44

David44 — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:27:57 +0000

@TLA:
Don’t change the terms of the discussion. Your words were “everyone who actually wants to get to Palestinian cities – passes there [the Allenby bridge] without a problem”. So I proved to you that some people DO have a problem entering Palestinian cities via the Allenby bridge; I even offered a site with a photograph to demonstrate the point. You were factually wrong in your statement.

But you for some reason don’t want to admit that you were factually wrong, and so you now suddenly change the argument and start talking about how Israel has the right to do it. As it happens, I never said otherwise: I didn’t express a view on that question one way or the other (all I was doing was correcting your factual mistake). YOU were the person who was talking about how the activists should have gone via the Allenby Bridge so that Israel wouldn’t have stopped them. If you think that the main point is “you’ll have to either seek admission through the Israeli or the Egyptian crossings, no way around it”, why did YOU bring up the Allenby Bridge in the first place?

By: TLA

TLA — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:09:44 +0000

@TheOtherJoe – yes I have. The problems with Egypt have nothing to do with Israel. From Israel standpoint, everyone who wants to enter Gaza should go through Egypt, and rightly so, what the foreigners can or cannot do in Egypt – take it with the Egyptians. They have the right to rule their own country just as much as the Israelis do.
@David44 Do you want me to provide you a picture of a “Entry Denied” stamp made by a US government official? There are plenty of those stamped every day for numerous reasons. While the US government doesn’t bother to even give an explanation, I don’t see any outcry about that. Why are you complaining about Israel doing the same? I’m pretty sure they had their reasons. I believe them more than I believe the Pro-Palestinians. And even if they didn’t have valid reasons (valid for you that is), it is still their RIGHT. I do not understand why it is even a discussion. Its something so basic that I cannot comprehend how would people disagree on. Every country has a right to deny entry to anyone who’s not their citizen – why Israel cannot? When Palestinians become a country – they’ll guard their own borders, until then – you’ll have to either seek admission through the Israeli or the Egyptian crossings, no way around it and you better start dealing with it instead of crying like a baby whose toy has been taking away.

By: David44

David44 — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:36:28 +0000

@TLA:

You said:
“The other links you brought only mentioned very vague claims which I believe had nothing to do with the reality”

One of those other links provided an actual photograph of the “entry denied” stamp from the Allenby Bridge on the passport. The other provided an extremely detailed account with precise dates and circumstances of the refusal. Only someone who was determined to ignore any evidence which contradicted his fixed world-view could interpret those as “very vague claims … which had nothing to do with the reality”.

By: Jack

Jack — Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:05:01 +0000

Shaun,
Its not the activists who embarres themselves. Now Israel use of collective punishment is paying back with lost revenue since their sweeping ban led to 40% of cancled flights for people who had nothing to do with these protests to begin with.
-
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-official-40-of-names-on-shin-bet-fly-in-blacklist-were-not-activists-1.424470
-
“We have insulted hundreds of foreign citizens because of suspicions, and have given the other side a victory on a silver platter.”