Comments on: At J-Street, new terms describe Israeli reality http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/ Independent commentary and news from Israel & Palestine Sat, 25 May 2013 21:29:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Rann B http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6781 Rann B Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:36:17 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6781 Haiku360: see http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2010/08_arab_opinion_poll_telhami/08_arab_opinion_poll_telhami.pdf Haiku360: see http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2010/08_arab_opinion_poll_telhami/08_arab_opinion_poll_telhami.pdf

]]> By: Rann B http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6777 Rann B Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:21:39 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6777 Haiku360: "Arab leaders almost unanimously identified a nuclear Iran as their #1 greatest concern. " Correct. Arab LEADERS. Not Arabs. This is one reason behind the various revolutions... Haiku360: “Arab leaders almost unanimously identified a nuclear Iran as their #1 greatest concern. ”

Correct. Arab LEADERS. Not Arabs. This is one reason behind the various revolutions…

]]> By: Haiku360 http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6639 Haiku360 Sat, 12 Mar 2011 03:35:51 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6639 re: My own survey from November 2010 shows that no less than a 69% majority of Jewish Israelis agree that “a deal with the Palestinians will improve Israel’s relations with other countries, which will help the world unite against Iran.” Could you explain this dynamic in a little more detail? When Mitchell was dispatched by BHO to survey the prevailing concerns in the Arab world (assuming it was the Israel/Palestinian issue), Arab leaders almost unanimously identified a nuclear Iran as their #1 greatest concern. The Israel/Palestinian issue barely registered (check out the wikileaks cables if you need further evidence). So...perhaps you should try another tack in your attempts to perpetuate the well worn and intellectually dishonest "linkage" argument. Just a thought. It may even make your opinion slightly less irrelevant. re: My own survey from November 2010 shows that no less than a 69% majority of Jewish Israelis agree that “a deal with the Palestinians will improve Israel’s relations with other countries, which will help the world unite against Iran.”

Could you explain this dynamic in a little more detail?

When Mitchell was dispatched by BHO to survey the prevailing concerns in the Arab world (assuming it was the Israel/Palestinian issue), Arab leaders almost unanimously identified a nuclear Iran as their #1 greatest concern. The Israel/Palestinian issue barely registered (check out the wikileaks cables if you need further evidence).

So…perhaps you should try another tack in your attempts to perpetuate the well worn and intellectually dishonest “linkage” argument.

Just a thought. It may even make your opinion slightly less irrelevant.

]]> By: Y. http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6503 Y. Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:32:00 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6503 Yikes. It's like a parody of Lakoff. A. Renaming stuff won't help you avoid the old bad connotations. They just travel along. B. It is telling that all the renamings works only in English, and only among the ignorant (e.g. How does one say "Judean" in Hebrew? Weren't the Judeans the only ones that survived the split, making them the better side? etc.). The Left is starting to give up on Israelis. C. I'm glad to hear that the Declaration of Independence was anti-Zionist**. Again, you can try to redefine stuff as you like - it doesn't change what they are. It just makes other people laugh. Allow me to suggests this sap would only work on a very small, extremely ignorant group amongst the American Jews. ** "ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL." Yikes. It’s like a parody of Lakoff.

A. Renaming stuff won’t help you avoid the old bad connotations. They just travel along.

B. It is telling that all the renamings works only in English, and only among the ignorant (e.g. How does one say “Judean” in Hebrew? Weren’t the Judeans the only ones that survived the split, making them the better side? etc.). The Left is starting to give up on Israelis.

C. I’m glad to hear that the Declaration of Independence was anti-Zionist**. Again, you can try to redefine stuff as you like – it doesn’t change what they are. It just makes other people laugh.

Allow me to suggests this sap would only work on a very small, extremely ignorant group amongst the American Jews.

**
“ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE’S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.”

]]> By: Mikhael http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6379 Mikhael Mon, 07 Mar 2011 06:53:24 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6379 RANN B writes that Jews are afraid to live in Arab communities in Israel because of a Jewish fear of assimilation, but the fact is that more often than not Jews are made unwelcome. Recently, a young Jewish guy purhcased an apartment in the town of Ibilin (majority Christian/Muslim Arab town in Galilee) and his life was threatened. I think calls for not renting to Arabs in places like Tsefat must be protested against, but don't ignore the real fact that Jews are unwanted in Arab municipalities within Israel proper either. About the only time Israeli Jews are welcomed to move into such communities is when an Israeli Jewish woman marries a Muslim man and converts to his religion. RANN B writes that Jews are afraid to live in Arab communities in Israel because of a Jewish fear of assimilation, but the fact is that more often than not Jews are made unwelcome. Recently, a young Jewish guy purhcased an apartment in the town of Ibilin (majority Christian/Muslim Arab town in Galilee) and his life was threatened.

I think calls for not renting to Arabs in places like Tsefat must be protested against, but don’t ignore the real fact that Jews are unwanted in Arab municipalities within Israel proper either. About the only time Israeli Jews are welcomed to move into such communities is when an Israeli Jewish woman marries a Muslim man and converts to his religion.

]]> By: Dahlia Scheindlin http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6274 Dahlia Scheindlin Sat, 05 Mar 2011 01:48:13 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6274 I completely agree that language alone does not change policy. What I've tried to argue is that reality on the ground has already changed and since the old language is no longer relevant, it is therefore damaging. Using old terminology is locking us into policy ideas that are way past expiration date. The hope is that new language will reflect more realistic thinking and policy options. I completely agree that language alone does not change policy. What I’ve tried to argue is that reality on the ground has already changed and since the old language is no longer relevant, it is therefore damaging. Using old terminology is locking us into policy ideas that are way past expiration date. The hope is that new language will reflect more realistic thinking and policy options.

]]> By: Rann B http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6266 Rann B Fri, 04 Mar 2011 20:19:39 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6266 Why Israel's Occupation is not Coming to an End http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/04/why_israels_occupation_is_not_coming_to_an_end Why Israel’s Occupation is not Coming to an End

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/04/why_israels_occupation_is_not_coming_to_an_end

]]> By: Rami of Nazareth http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6255 Rami of Nazareth Fri, 04 Mar 2011 14:07:01 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6255 Excellent article Dahlia Excellent article Dahlia

]]> By: Todd Gitlin http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6252 Todd Gitlin Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:06:37 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6252 Dahlia-- You've written a real contribution--a keeper. Thank you. Dahlia– You’ve written a real contribution–a keeper. Thank you.

]]> By: ChicagosMonster http://972mag.com/a-new-language-for-israeli-reality-is-hammered-out-at-j-street/11358/comment-page-1/#comment-6242 ChicagosMonster Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:35:46 +0000 http://972mag.com/?p=11358#comment-6242 Israel cannot remain a democracy and a self-proclaimed Jewish State at the same time, it's just impossible. Israel is already now going through what America did during our Civil Rights era, and there has yet to be a clear, recognizable Palestinian Rosa Parks refusing to budge. After all, Rosa Parks not moving to the back of the bus didn't entail having the military bulldoze her home and torture her male relatives until she capitulated. Israel needs to draft a Constitution granting equal rights to all, Jew or Arab, establishing clear borders, and remove racists from the airwaves (such as in Ami Kaufman's most recent piece) as they only make Israel look worse. I will not lie, as an American and an anti-Zionist, I have not much love for Israel today. I see Israel as a threat to global peace and security, and it needs to implement major changes - and quickly - for its own good and the rest of the world. Israel cannot remain a democracy and a self-proclaimed Jewish State at the same time, it’s just impossible. Israel is already now going through what America did during our Civil Rights era, and there has yet to be a clear, recognizable Palestinian Rosa Parks refusing to budge. After all, Rosa Parks not moving to the back of the bus didn’t entail having the military bulldoze her home and torture her male relatives until she capitulated.

Israel needs to draft a Constitution granting equal rights to all, Jew or Arab, establishing clear borders, and remove racists from the airwaves (such as in Ami Kaufman’s most recent piece) as they only make Israel look worse.

I will not lie, as an American and an anti-Zionist, I have not much love for Israel today. I see Israel as a threat to global peace and security, and it needs to implement major changes – and quickly – for its own good and the rest of the world.

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